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Oh, this is just precious! Apparently, the gentleman who stopped the mass murder in a bar with his own private weapon is a hero, sure, but could have been a hero if he'd have just tackled the guy or whacked him upside the head with an empty O'Doul's bottle.

Query:  Had this good samaritan tackled the shooter, would he be less of a hero?  Had he struck the shooter over the head with a beer bottle, would he be less of a hero?  There are plenty of other examples, but the point is the same.

Brave talk from a guy sitting behind a keyboard. "Just tackle him instead! No need for icky guns!" Because we all know that a man with a gun shooting at people will be instantly subdued the instant you put your best Hulk Hogan move on him. He will instantly drop his firearm (after engaging the safety, of course), and submit to your overpowering WWE skills. He would never even think about, nor have the ability to, turn the firearm on you.

Of course, to tackle someone safely you need to either be larger than they are, have enough momentum to overcome the weight difference if he is the bigger one, or have superior ninja skills / training that enable you to overpower your prey - something even the 6'3", 200+ pound population such as myself do not possess. In fact, in my military training, we were taught to fight up close since most people cannot effectively grapple.

As for the beer bottle, well, let's just say someone here needs to stop watching all those action movies or at least realize they're not based on reality. I've been hit in the head with harder things at faster rates of speed and have only been knocked unconscious one time. Generally, it just hurts like hell. Hurt a guy with a gun, he's likely to shoot you and while the bullet is considerably lighter than a glass bottle, it's traveling at a tremendous velocity that more than makes up for its weight.

Now, I might be misreading this guy, but the gist of his post is Yeah, this guy is a "hero" and shit, but having a gun still is a bad thing and one story isn't proof of anything. Then he spouts this drivel

The question of whether the Second Amendment will ultimately result in rampant shootings across America, or responsible gun culture that will serve better to protect than to harm, has nothing to do with whether there is a right to bear arms.  It's just a way of blunting the claims of potential disaster, and making the anticipated interpretation more palatable.  See, a gun saved lives.  Take that, you liberals.

There's years, and years, and years of data that "blunt the claims of potential disaster". There's also that annoying 270 million guns thing that, if having a gun made people into killers, should have wiped out the population of the United States a long time ago, but hasn't. Then there are the thousands of stories of individuals protecting themselves with a gun (you know, those who didn't possess professional wrestlers' proficiency in the ring).

My preference is to see that a man saved lives.  The same motivation to do something to stop harm to others existed regardless of whether the fellow carried a concealed weapon.  The gun doesn't make the hero.  The hero makes the hero.  The fact that this person was willing to risk his own welfare to help other people sounds decidedly "liberal".  Maybe only liberals should have guns?

How... elitist of you. Considering that those of us who bear arms in our own self defense are the epitome of self reliant and do so because we consider ourselves free men and women, then yes, we're liberals. Not the smooshy, "progressive" crap that has taken the nomenclature, but the true label of those who value the individual over the collective. I value freedom, and to be a free person is to understand that I control my own actions, I am responsible for the results of my labor (be it good or bad), and do not request from my fellow free citizens that they allow themselves to be chained so that I can feel "safer" or better about my inability to control my own life.

Liberty is unsafe. It is inherently dangerous. It entails risk as unending as the reward. You cannot ensure liberty for yourself by denying it to others. To truly embrace liberty, you must grant it freely to all even at the cost of a loss of the perception of security.

Or you could just take Karate lessons and hope your yellow belt is all you need to disarm a crazy man with a gun.

rolled out on Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:15 AM
Comments
# re: Simple minded - Carl

Rolled Out On: 5/29/2008 9:43 AM

Very well said Robb.

A couple of other points...

The gun may very well make the hero. Sounds like you only have an inch or so on me and I'm in the 200+ pound club too, and I'd be pretty inclined to not get involved unless my personal safety were at risk without a firearm. I'm carrying the difference between running for a safe place to dial 911 and ending the incident.

We say "take that, you liberals" in a case like this because we are bombarded with illegal, improper uses of firearms as reason to restrict access. We all know some blogs with the gleeful daily roundups of homicides of 19-year-old gangbangers and drug dealers gone wrong. Those who only look at one side of the equation deserve a finger in their eye from time to time.

# re: Simple minded - trainer

Rolled Out On: 5/29/2008 9:47 AM

...then there are those of us, while ambulatory, are recovering from a stroke and can't even run, much less bust a move.

I prefer rule .357.

# re: Simple minded - Ahab

Rolled Out On: 5/29/2008 10:00 AM

You've met me, so you know that despite my 200 lbs of sausage, I'm not exactly what people would call "imposing". At 5'6 and 145 pounds, I'm not going to be tackling anyone, unless the joint is being shot up by Verne Troyer. For guys like me, close physical encounters of the violent nature are generally something we try to avoid, even if you're like me and have a pretty good martial arts background - getting up close and personal with someone who has on average 30 pounds on me is a dumb idea.

# re: Simple minded - Rustmeister

Rolled Out On: 5/29/2008 10:27 AM

Yeah, but we fear the sausage!

# re: Simple minded - Breda

Rolled Out On: 5/29/2008 12:41 PM

I'm not taking any chances. I'm carrying.

(Heck, I'm smaller than Ahab and don't even have sausage!)

# re: Simple minded - Mike w

Rolled Out On: 5/29/2008 12:52 PM

Being that I'm Caleb's weight + 6 inches and I have CP I generally try to avoid physical confrontations. With 2 concussions under my belt already I'd also rather not be pummeled in the head with anything, including fists. A 200+ lb. unarmed man could probably kill me with his bare hands, and attempting to tackle him likely wouldn't change things.

This guy wouldn't be a hero if he'd tried to tackle the guy or hit him over the head, he'd just be stupid and dead. Instead he used the best tool for stopping violent threats, and it worked.

# re: Simple minded - Ahab

Rolled Out On: 5/29/2008 2:04 PM

I feel bad for Breda that she missed the sausage reference at the blog bash.

The short version of the story is that I was talking about an upcoming hog hunt and offered several attendees some of the "200 lbs of sausage" I'd be bringing back with me.

Needless to say, the table went quiet for about 30 seconds then the giggling commenced.

# re: Simple minded - Justthisguy

Rolled Out On: 5/30/2008 2:35 AM

I'm 5'11, closer to 60 than 50 in years of age, and maybe 140 lbs soaking wet. I'm not in good shape, and have no particular grappling skills, though I think I remember how to do O-Soto-Gari, if the other guy has lapels to grab.

I'm sorry; at my age, with my circumstances, I ain't doing any fair fights. Pick a fight with me, and one of us is going to die.

Or at least get a .45 caliber hole in him.

I do avoid going into bars.

# re: Simple minded - DJK

Rolled Out On: 5/30/2008 12:00 PM

Well said... Yeah, like "trainer" I choose rule .45.

# re: Simple minded - Firehand

Rolled Out On: 5/30/2008 2:57 PM

I've got a friend who has it all planned out how she'll use her bokken(oak practice sword) to smack anyone who breaks in: first knee, then head. Because she thinks guns are 'unnecessary'.

Let's see, a three-foot stick that can get tangled in/blocked by something, and she's assuming both blows will land and have the effect she wants.

I'm 50 and have crappy knees, and I'm not playing "I shall tackle the bad guy and then stand in triumph, teeth gleaming like the Great Leslie": as noted by people above, I'll invoke Rule .45.

# re: Simple minded - Bart

Rolled Out On: 5/31/2008 8:09 AM

I'm in 100% agreement with Uncle Ted on this subject:

"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic."

--Ted Nugent

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