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From a USA today article discussing the need for the Police to buy more military style weapons

WASHINGTON — Law enforcement agencies across the country have been upgrading their firepower to deal with what they say is the increasing presence of high-powered weapons on the streets.

Scott Knight, chairman of the Firearms Committee of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, says an informal survey of about 20 departments revealed that since 2004 all of the agencies have either added weapons to officers' patrol units or have replaced existing weaponry with military-style arms.

I know, coming from a 10mm & .357 guy, I'm not one to talk down on overkill when it comes to firepower, but this is very, very piss-poor logic.

Let's take my mother for example. She carries a snub-nosed .38 special. Any goblin who dares attack her is going to have a new hole in his head to think twice about. Now the goblin could be carrying a fully loaded M-16 with M-203 grenade launcher, but that's not going to take away the fact that my mother is a lethally accurate shot.

Now, a thick leather jacket could ostensibly stop a .38 so, it might behoove my mother to go to a more powerful caliber that would pierce most clothing / jackets being that she lives in a clime that does experience colder weather. However, being of smaller stature, she can't tote around a .44 magnum and reasonably maintain good control.

Notice the difference here. Mother's only concern for her firepower is what has the best combination of stopping power and controllability. It matters not one whit what the criminal carries.

So the police saying they need military style (which, of course, only refers to the look of the weapon) firearms because the criminals have them is laughable. What the police need is to figure out what rounds serve their needs the best - such as best takedown power, distance, penetration, and accuracy - and buy those, not worry about if Joe Crackhead has a .577 Tyrannosaur. If you get shot where it counts, you're dead, regardless if it's a .22 or a .223 (5.56 mm - if you've never seen an M-16 round before, it's puny).

Now, the article is replete with fantasies and myths about those scary "assault weapons" and it pretty much toes the anti-gun line, but this paragraph was icing on the cake

It was not immediately clear if assault weapons were driving the increase in weapons seizures or were directly linked to the county's record number of homicides in 2006, Stucker says

First off, the number of homicides has nothing to do with the police's need for stronger firearms. Are they going to prevent the killing of others by killing people better? Second, this paragraph was put in specifically to tie "assault weapons" to "homicides" even though logically they don't mesh.

Here's the answer - No, scary looking guns don't cause people to kill any more than a wood-stock rifle does. So, there is no link. Period.

Idiots.

*Gleefully stolen from David Codrea at The War On Guns. See his site for details.

rolled out on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:47 AM
Comments
# re: We're the 'Only Ones'* that should keep up with the Joneses - Brass

Rolled Out On: 2/20/2007 12:57 PM

I'm still trying to figure out why in the hell the police need full-auto weapons. When was the last time cops needed supressing fire? Seems to me it would lead to more accidents than arrests.

# re: We're the 'Only Ones'* that should keep up with the Joneses - Billy Oblivion

Rolled Out On: 2/20/2007 2:15 PM

It is concievable that a thick leather jacket could stop a .38, IF that thick leather jacket was holding a nice thick 11x14 kevlar panel, or a similar sized ceramic plate. Or was about 200 yards out.

In "active shooter" scenarios it does make sense for your average street cop to have something along the lines of a HK-93 or an AR-15--the theory behind (at least some) of the AS training seems to be that as police arrive on the scene they will stack up and go in, meaning the first 4-5 cops on the scene ARE the swat team for that event and they need the right tools to do the job.

However a couple of well trained cops with Glock 19s will do more than a half dozen poorly trained officers with the latest hose-guns.

# re: We're the 'Only Ones'* that should keep up with the Joneses - Robb Allen

Rolled Out On: 2/20/2007 2:25 PM

Billy, you are absolutely correct. The cops need those types of weapons because the situation calls for it, not because the people they are using them against have them.

My old man is a cop, and I have nothing but the utmost respect for the cops that do their best to keep you and me safe. They should get the best weaponry that money can buy that suits the situations they are in.

I mean, if a cop shows up to a situation armed with a 30-06, should he give up because the bad guy has a .50BFG?

As far as the jacket, I've heard that a thick leather jacket can slow a .38 down enough to prevent it from poking a hole in you. The operative word being "can". And I don't ever plan on being shot by a BB gun much less even a .38 so I refuse to speak from experience.

# re: We're the 'Only Ones'* that should keep up with the Joneses - Jaye Random

Rolled Out On: 2/21/2007 12:35 PM

Debate about what firearms police should be using aside, this USA TODAY article is interesting as an example of gun control advocates using the media to scare the ignorant public. The first quote is from pro-gun control police chief Scott Knight (who has received an award from gun-control lobbying group "Citizens For a Safer Minnesota") who claims that "more higher-caliber weapons are on the street since the expiration of the ban". This is nonsense, since anyone familiar with the semi-automatic rifle ban of 1994 knows that a very large stock of existing firearms were grandfathered into continued legality for sale; legal availability of semi-automatic rifles was never significantly affected by the law for the 10 years it was in effect.

# re: We're the 'Only Ones'* that should keep up with the Joneses - JDTaylor

Rolled Out On: 2/22/2007 12:02 AM

Hey, I couldn't agree more. The people in the republic of California harp continous about being out gunned and how there needs to be restrictions and the cops need more. They site the North-Hollywood shootout as an example. They even say that the cops went and raided sporting good stores to get "assault-weapons" to combat them. They got 9mm MP-5's and AR15's helped very little. If they would have gotten a hunting rifle with 300 Win Mag or a 30-06 with FMJ ball ammo, they could have defeated the ballistic vests easily. They focus on the "ugly look" of the gun instead of function. Most "assault weapons" are chambered in light or medium (short range)ammo.

# re: We're the 'Only Ones'* that should keep up with the Joneses - triticale

Rolled Out On: 2/22/2007 7:37 PM

The deciding factor in most shooting situations is shot placement. Generally speaking, criminals are lousy shots, and cops are not much better. What police need is training sufficient to make them equal to the average armed citizen.

# re: We're the 'Only Ones'* that should keep up with the Joneses - Robb Allen

Rolled Out On: 2/22/2007 8:06 PM


Generally speaking, criminals are lousy shots


I wish that were the case.

I. NEW FINDINGS FROM FBI ABOUT COP ATTACKERS & THEIR WEAPONS

New findings on how offenders train with, carry and deploy the weapons they use to attack police officers have emerged in a just-published, 5-year study by the FBI.

Among other things, the data reveal that most would-be cop killers:

--show signs of being armed that officers miss;

--have more experience using deadly force in "street combat" than their intended victims;

--practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately;


# re: We're the 'Only Ones'* that should keep up with the Joneses - SE

Rolled Out On: 2/25/2007 4:13 PM

As a cop/firearms and tactics instructor/former SWAT guy and also an avid hunter, NRA member and defender of the 2nd Amend., let me address two points:

1. First, a .38 cal may be stopped by a leather jacket. I had a personal experience of 9mm 115 grn hollowpoints mushrooming in a suspect's leather jacket and never hitting his skin. (He gave up after HE ran out of ammo-not kidding.) By the way-stop commenting on what cops ought to do in a gunfight until you've been in a couple.

2. My guys carry .223's, shotguns and handguns. They are not carryinging them in response to anything other than selecting the best tool to get the job done for the particular situation they face. I'd rather see cops carrying a rifle when a suspect has a pistol so they have the best advantage. We aren't carrying rifles for some B.S. reason like "the streets are flooded with assault weapons."

Law abiding citizens should also be allowed to arm themselves in a manner that is appropriate for their own self defense. At home, that may include some type of military style rifle. For personal defense, law abiding citizens should be allowed the right to discretely carry a firearm (handgun) for their own defense.

The police are not the Secret Service, they are not there to provide personal security to each individual (Even the Supreme Court said so.). Personal defense is an individual right and responsibility.

The first ten amendments are called "The Bill of Rights" which guarantees those rights to INDIVIDUALS, not the government. The 2nd Amend. is an INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms. The founders weren't talking about hunting rights, they were talking about INDIVIDUAL rights to defense.

I'm sure Hillary, Obama, Chucky Schumer, Diane Feinstein, Sarah Brady, Rudy Giulliani, John McCain et. al. would love to repeal Amend 2. Most cops aren't opposed to citizen ownership of firearms- it's your political elites. The guys your founding fathers were trying to protect you against in the first place.

# re: We're the 'Only Ones'* that should keep up with the Joneses - Robb Allen

Rolled Out On: 2/25/2007 4:29 PM

SE, thanks for the insight. I don't think anyone is trying to tell the cops how to act in a gunfight, we all seem to agree with what you said. You arm yourself with what works the best for you.

My favorite line of your is

Personal defense is an individual right and responsibility.

This should be hammered into our kids' heads from day one.

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