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Look. From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:Fascism - a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition Do I need to explain and compare each point to Bush goals and policy? How close are we? Are you scared?- You should be. Now try to scare me with Socialism. No dictator, no forced suppression, no domination of government by big business, etc. We're closer to the above definition under Bush than we have ever been to the socialist society that the Right continuously links to Liberal America.

Yes, you do need to compare each point because I am perfectly able to read a dictionary myself and definitions themselves are not an argument. But, since you only provided a base definition and little to go from then I can only do so much

Exalting nation - Well, I do that. I love America. Anyone who loves their country will exalt it. Funny how antonym of exalt are condemn, criticize, debase, degrade, humiliate, put down, and ridicule. As far as race above the individual, that is a laughable attempt. Name one time where Bush claims the white race is superior. Give me a single link to a transcript where he says something about a master or superior race. You won't be able to (and here starts the unraveling of your premise).

Centralized, autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader - I seem to remember last November we voted. We used a democratic process to choose our president. Antonym to autocratic? Democratic. So we don't have a dictator nor do we have an autocratic government. So, two strikes to your argument.

severe economic and social regimentation  - If you're wanting to base the whole fascist idiocy on this, you better start laying down hundreds of links to where Bush has imposed severe economic regimentation. I mean, he's all about an Ownership Society which means you decide on what to do with your money, not Uncle Sam. Social regimentation has not been laid down by the president. We can argue until the cows come home about social issues, but the POTUS and his administration have very little to do with any laws that affect us in that manner. You can complain about the Defense of Marriage debacle, but unless you're willing to take government out of defining marriage (which means when company X refuses to recognize same sex marriage, there is nothing the government can do) then you support the government determining social mores. Another word for that would be regimentation.

And finally, my favorite forcible suppression of opposition - Name the number of Democrat supporters thrown in jail / murdered / exiled for voicing their views. Michael Moore was a vocal critic of Bush and ended up making $50,000,000.00 off of a movie based solely on opposition. Please give me credible links to instances of this.

So there you have it. Instead of trying to persuade me of your view, you simply cut and paste a definition from Webster. This is not how you argue. Show me facts. Show me actual happenings, not some hare-brained conspiracy theory. Make me understand what it is you think I'm not seeing.

And you need to let go of your hate. I didn't like Clinton at all, and towards the end I found myself believing every little rumor that popped up. I let the dislike of some of his policies break out into disdain for everything about him, and caught myself when I realized how unhealthy, and unreal everything was that I was believing in. You need to open your eyes as well and see that believing we're being overrun with fascists is unhealthy too.

rolled out on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 9:07 PM
Comments
# Robb is confused... - verns blog

Rolled Out On: 2/22/2005 11:40 PM

# RE: Arguing With Dictionaries - Dann

Rolled Out On: 2/23/2005 4:45 AM

Well put, Robb. The whole Bushitler meme is nothing more than a neon orange sign indicating that the individual making such claims has no real reason to dislike or oppose Mr. Bush.

Regards,

# RE: Arguing With Dictionaries - JDRhoades

Rolled Out On: 2/24/2005 11:18 AM

I think part of the reason for the "Bushitler meme" is the behavior of some of his supporters. The "Bush can do no wrong" attitude of some people who call themselves conservatives, the contempt for anyone, even Republicans in Congress, who dare oppose him (RINO anyone?), even the cartoons of Bush as Uncle Sam (the President IS America) all of that leads inexorably to the uncomfortable feeling that we've got a real cult of personality (i.e. the desire for an autocratic leader) brewing here.

As for "forcible suppression of opposition", try this quotes on for size:

the best way to talk to liberals is "with a baseball bat."

"In the end William Joyce was executed for giving aid and comfort to the enemy during war time. Would that the same fate befall [USA Today publisher] Al Neuharth!"

And I've gotten threatening e-mails for some columns I've written. And I'm a moderate. I spoke out against the Iraq war, however, so I'm a "terrorist" who "should be hanged in the public sqaure as an example."

Until Bush and Co. speak out--forcefully--against this kind of thing, people are going to assume they approve of it.

# RE: Arguing With Dictionaries - Robb Allen

Rolled Out On: 2/24/2005 12:03 PM

Sorry JD, but that's a weak argument. When I was a kid, my father would tell me that if I didn't behave he;d whip my ass until my nose bleeds. He never actually did that, it was a figure of speech. Unless you can show where the Bush administration authorized the use of force to quell political opposition, then your assertion rings hollow.

And Bush has no reason to speak out against something somebody else did. That's like saying if you don't write articles condemning child rape, spousal abuse, cheating on SAT's, etc. that you support those actions. Ann Coulter, Rush, Hannity and their ilk may say they speak for conservatives, but that's BS. I don't feel the need to speak out against them because I don't consider them representative of my views.

You should not receive death threats for simply opposing the war. I opposed it in the very beginning myself (probably for different reasons than you, but still). People's passion cause them to do stupid things. Take Powerline's explative filled email the other day. That was totally uncalled for. But until people start coming to the table calmly, armed with facts, I'm afraid it's going to continue from every side.

Best of luck, and I hope you get legal recourse against those who threatened you.

# RE: Arguing With Dictionaries - tee bee

Rolled Out On: 2/24/2005 4:41 PM

It's ironic (okay, that may be my special word for today) that Clinton was such an embarrassment, and I practically counted the seconds until he was out of office, but I knew the nation would be able to weather all his screw-ups. I didn't hate him; I cringed at how likeable such a despicable human being could be. He's probably at the top of my list for celeb/politicos I'd want to talk to.

Bush? If you think he's stupid, you should be able to appreciate that legislation rests largely in the hands of Congress, and enjoy such a fit person being the butt of the political jokes. If you think he's dangerous, you should reflect on the balance of power and the fact that a record number of people voted for him. The problem must be rampant - better get your bunker or your exit visa in order.

And I hate to break it to you JD, but cult of personality is what has made presidents since the media-saturated second half of the 20th century. It's why Clinton - with so much of his unsavory past being dredged up - beat Bush, a popular war president, the dour Dole, and would have steamrolled Gore in 92. It's why presidents are responsible for legislation and for contributing to an ever-topheavier bureaucracy.

# RE: Arguing With Dictionaries - Nathan

Rolled Out On: 2/25/2005 12:15 AM

There has probably not been a Cult of Personality among US politicians as great as that of John F Kennedy, no?

# RE: Arguing With Dictionaries - JDRhoades

Rolled Out On: 2/25/2005 9:40 AM

"Bush has no reason to speak out against something somebody else did. "

Wow, that's real leadership there.

"If you think he's dangerous, you should reflect on the balance of power and the fact that a record number of people voted for him."

Reflecting on the balance of power...and the fact that a "record number of people" seem to want to unbalance it is what worries me. But I take some comfort in the fact that it was the narrowest margin, both in terms of popular and electoral vote, than any other sitting President for over a century. A record number of people voted for him because a record number of people voted. Someone who won by that narrow a margin might consider a little more humility.

# RE: Arguing With Dictionaries - tee bee

Rolled Out On: 2/25/2005 9:55 AM

JD, your ambivalence for facts doesn't seem to be making life easier to bear. Got your visa ap in yet?

# RE: Arguing With Dictionaries - JDRhoades

Rolled Out On: 2/25/2005 3:44 PM

Oh, life is fine. And I'm not going anywhere. Hey, I lived through Nixon. This too shall pass. The wheel turns, keep that in mind.

# RE: Arguing With Dictionaries - tee bee

Rolled Out On: 2/25/2005 6:46 PM

that was my point in the first place, along with pointing to the cogs that make it so.

# Robb is confused... - verns test blog

Rolled Out On: 4/3/2005 4:32 AM

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