Rolled Out On: 1/2/2005 3:35 PM

now you're really somebody, eh? unless Gordon's right about minnie, which is a scary thought. troll-bots. next they'll be cloning 'em.

about your cousin, I don't remember seeing him in Roger & Me, but I saw it a loooooong time ago, before Mikey was as obvious a base fraud as he was after the Columbine movie. I can't imagine seeing Bob Eubanks in such an unflattering light - he (still) seems like a genuinely nice guy. if you see him, you can tell him I said so, and I saw the movie.

Rolled Out On: 1/3/2005 1:09 AM

My favorite part is the one where, since Bush cannot bring up documentation that he was never AWOL then he must be hiding it and therefor was AWOL! That folks is classic nutcase logic!

Easy, there, chief.

When you have no documentation that he was present where he was supposed to be, eyewitness accounts that he wasn't present where he was supposed to be, and admissions from the man himself that we wasn't where he was supposed to be (serving in Massachussets), then what other conclusion is one supposed to come to? It's like if your boss came to you and said "your timesheet wasn't punched in or out on Tuesday, and nobody saw you at work on Tuesday, so I conclude you didn't come in on Tuesday" and your reply is "that's nutcase logic."

Uh, no. Your response is nutcase logic, and your boss is going to shitcan your ass for not showing up, because you'd have to be an idiot to come to any other conclusion. So too with Bush's TANG service.

Rolled Out On: 1/3/2005 9:10 AM

Easy there Chet, don't hurt yourself trying to think. AWOL is a charge. Bush never was charged with being AWOL. As a reservist myself I understand that you can miss individual commitments. Did it a few times myself. The man had all the points he needed which means he lived up to his end of the bargain. But don't let that little tidbit of information get in your way of your hatred.

Rolled Out On: 1/4/2005 3:40 AM

AWOL is a charge.

It's also used as slang for "didn't show up when he was obligated to", which is the truth.

I mean, Saddam Hussein is a murderer, right? Does it matter that murder is also a charge, and he has not been charged with murder? You're just playing sematic games.

The man had all the points he needed which means he lived up to his end of the bargain.

No, he didn't. The White House paperwork makes that clear. He had the points, but he didn't do the service it took to earn them. He just got the points.

You really need to look into this a little deeper. It's incontrovertable that Bush failed to meet his committments; but, of course, as the son of a famous war hero and senator, strings were pulled so that his failure wouldn't jeapardize his career. As a former reservist, doesn't that bother you a little bit? That Bush got away with something you might (in another time) have been sent to the front for doing? Or does your love of his party mean that no matter what he does it must be right?

Rolled Out On: 1/4/2005 6:41 AM

Chet, I've already looked through all the records I could stand. The man completed his duty just fine. Besides, how can you expect me to buy into your BS when you can't even get his father's role correct (hint - HW never was a senator)?

Oh, but those kinds of facts are wasted on you.

Rolled Out On: 1/4/2005 8:38 AM

Oh, and for something that is sooooo incontrovertible, proven beyond any shadow of doubt and factually backed up by mounds of documentation, why pray tell did CBS feel they had to use forged documents instead? Maybe because the so called proof you speak of doesn't exist????

No, you're right. It's a conspiracy!

Rolled Out On: 1/4/2005 10:54 AM

Oh, and for something that is sooooo incontrovertible, proven beyond any shadow of doubt and factually backed up by mounds of documentation, why pray tell did CBS feel they had to use forged documents instead?

Because the case against Bush isn't something that is easily digested into the 30-second soundbites that are the limit of the attention spans of you and the American people.

But, since you're so smart, why don't you tell me which ANG unit Bush reported to in Massachussets? Since you're so sure he completed his duty and all.

Rolled Out On: 1/4/2005 10:58 AM

Besides, how can you expect me to buy into your BS when you can't even get his father's role correct (hint - HW never was a senator)?

You're right - he ran for the Senate, but was not elected. My bad. But focusing on ephemera does not refute my position.

Rolled Out On: 1/4/2005 12:07 PM

I see the points on his final record. That means he completed his service. I see the air time he put in which was more than needed. That means he completed his service. I, as a (former, I want that to be clear) reservist have about 100 'holes' in my records. My transfer from NAS Atlanta to NAS Cecil Field took a year to get put in the books. During that time, I had to miss a drill, the Sgt Major didn't see me in roll call, and I got written up (although my Gunny knew where I was). The next drill I talked with the SM, and he said "Oh,that's fine". That incident came back during promotion time to bite me in the ass because it had never been cleared from the books.

When you're a part civillian, part military man shit like that happens. It was so common that no one ever paid much attention to it. So, the onus is on you to prove with facts that someone simply chalked up numbers for Bush. Just saying daddy did it doesn't prove anything.

And keep your answers under 30 seconds. Attention spans and all...

Rolled Out On: 1/4/2005 12:07 PM

In November 1970, the commander of the Texas Air National Guard, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian, called Mr. Bush, then 24, ''a dynamic outstanding young officer'' who stood out as ''a top-notch fighter interceptor pilot.'' ''Lt. Bush's skills far exceed his contemporaries,'' Colonel Killian wrote: ''He is a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership. Lt. Bush is also a good follower with outstanding disciplinary traits and an impeccable military bearing.''

Sounds like a dodger to me!

Rolled Out On: 1/4/2005 4:09 PM

I see the points on his final record

40, in a year he needed 43. (Remember that the TANG counts by fiscal year.)

36, in the next year with the same requirement. Plus we know he was paid for three months of drills in violation of regulations, because he didn't make up those drills in the allotted time. Furthermore:

On July 30, 1973, his last day of paid service in the Texas National Guard, Bush signed a statement that "I have been counseled this date regarding my plans to leave my present Reserve of [sic] assignment due to moving from this area. I undestand that: a. If I disassociate from my current Ready Reserve Assignment, it is my responsibility to locate and be assigned to another Reserve Forces unit or mobilization augmentation position. If I fail to do so, I am subject to involuntary order to active duty for up to 24 months under the provisions of AFM 35-3, chapter 14."

There is no record that Bush attempted to find a position in any National Guard unit, or in drilling Air Force Reserve unit, or any position that would have met the criteria mentioned in his July 30, 1973 statement.

Bush signed up for a 6-year hitch and only completed five years, four months, and five days of it. He was never called to account for it because his father was currently the US Ambassador to the UN, and had been the chairman of the Republican National Committee.

What would you call that? I call it not meeting his service requirements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_military_service_controversy

Look, if you disagree, then write the wiki article yourself. But just to warn you, you're going to have to write a better article than "Bush met his reqs and that's that; all you liberals need to shut up and by the way let me tell you how bad Kerry is."

Rolled Out On: 1/4/2005 6:14 PM

ARF or Air Reserve Forces points are accrued by ALL ANG and AFRC
personnel. Each member is automatically given 15 points. Add this to the
other 40 points on Bush's complete ARF point record and you get 55, 5
points higher than what is required for satisfactory service.

Nice try, but wrong. The man compiled 3 times the number of needed points throughout his career. That's honorable in my book. YMMV.