Rolled Out On: 10/11/2004 4:06 PM

I have searched for this well-written explanation of why drugs users are scum, for a long time. I had car burglarized 6 TIMES in 6 weeks by the cranksters down the street. Finally, their landlord kicked them out, and I haven't had a problem since. One (crankster) a day, one in possession suits me just fine.

Rolled Out On: 10/12/2004 7:31 AM

Hi Robb,

1. What about alcoholics that currently go to AA on your dime? (those without insurance usually use publicly funded programs) Should we ban alcohol based on your desire not to fund treatment for the Ted Kennedy set?

2. I detect the idea that illegal drug use cause crime (i.e. theft). Incorrect, criminalizing drugs causes a black market. That increases the street value of those drugs which in turn leads to the crime problem.** Legalizing drugs would bring the cost of drugs back down out of the stratosphere.

Back when Prohibition went into effect, the cost for a drink increase ten-fold overnight (literally). The cost of illegal alcohol remained at 15 to 20 times what would be expected if it were legalized throughout Prohibition (the first War on Drugs). Once alcohol was re-legalized, the 15 to 20x factor went away.

The same will happen when we end our failed War on Drugs.

**My wife once worked as a convenience store manager. Because of Michigan's incredibly high cigarette taxes, her store was robbed (after hours - no one in the store) repeatedly. The robbers always went straight for the smokes.

Regards,

Rolled Out On: 10/12/2004 10:25 AM

Dann, I would love nothing more than to repeal every stupid drug law, but as you illustrated, we even end up paying for AA. You're misunderstanding my point - Legalize the drugs but make people responsible for their own choices. Right now everyone screaming for repealing the drug laws don't seem to be concerned with the responsibility factor, and that is what I have the problem with.

Until that happens, I don't give a damn that my money is being spent putting drug users & sellers into jail. If it's going to be stolen from me then at least make the theives serve time.

Now, I'd be open to the idea if someone could point me out a study that would show how the legalization would cut the prices of drugs which would then lower crime and therefore free up a lot of police money that could be used for some programs, but that's a lot of 'ifs'.

My dream world would be legalize drugs and the abusers will have to find help from churches, charities or families, not Uncle "Hey, I need 20 bucks" Sam.

Rolled Out On: 10/12/2004 11:09 PM

Hi Robb,

I think I got your point the first time. What I am trying to convey is that your objections to legalization are based on the false premise that banning drugs in some way creates a socially less destructive condition than legalization would create. Legalization is about harm reduction; harm reduction to the user that no longer has to seek irregular intense highs; harm reduction to the user that won't have to worry about contaminated drugs; harm reduction to crime victims as users will suddenly be able to support their habits with regular jobs; harm reduction to tax payers currently being hammered with the tab for housing and feeding over half a million non-violent felons each year; harm reduction to tax payers funding hospitals that treat overdoses (and other health related issues) for free; harm reduction to kids as the people selling drugs would suddenly have an incentive not to sell them to 14 year olds; harm reduction to neighborhoods that no longer need to be the home to warring drug gangs; harm reduction in the form of a serious drop in the homicide rate.

As for examples, our experience with alcohol Prohibition should have been enough for us to not go down that road again. As for some more modern examples, go here, read until your eyes are bleary. They footnote everything extensively so there is lots of verifiable evidence to evaluate.

I started about 14 years ago when one of my SSgts verbally knocked me around a bit when I said something silly about pot smokers causing fights at bars. He was a part time DJ and knew better. For the next 6 to 8 years or so, I read everything I could lay my hands on with respect to the drug war. Everything out there indicates that legalization would make the issues about which you are concerned be less of a problem than they currently are.

Regards,

Rolled Out On: 10/13/2004 6:44 AM

Good points Dann. Artificial constructs are something that I seek to avoid (a very Randian type notion for me) and you have brought up enough valid arguments that I will give this some more thought.

As a Fair Tax advocate, I see the same thing happen with other people in regards to changing the current tax system. They think in current terms and it makes the reform look unworkable.

Wow, imagine that. Civil discourse on a blog from two people with differing views where one party willingly decides to entertain the notion presented by the other. This might be a first!

Rolled Out On: 10/14/2004 12:52 AM

Hi Robb,

Civil discourse (or at least more civil discourse) is why I moved over to blogs and away from general public forums a couple years ago.

On a side note, I find it curious that most of the veterans I talk to are willing to re-examine the WoD as well as other issues like the Fair Tax initiative and privatizing Social Security. Coming from such a structured background, I find it surprising that we are as open minded as we are.

Semper Fi,