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As everyone knows, there is quite a bit of tension at my work ever since it was 'discovered' that I am supporting Bush. I'm getting emails from my boss' boss who happens to sit in the office directly across from my cube. He sent me an email the other day 

Challenger says more than 724-thousand job cuts have been announced so far this year.

At the same time, employers revealed only 16-thousand new job openings, according to the Challenger report.

 Let's hear the spin on this one :}

The problem is, I went ahead and asked someone who wrote a book on economics about this and Dale Franks (Q and O blogger) replied with the following

There are a couple of problems with the CGC.  First, it's not a count of anything real.  It's just a count of the number of layoffs that companies are announcing in the media.  CGC doesn't know whether those layoffs actually take place, nor do they count in-company transfers or new hiring. A compnay could announce layoff of 5,000 people from Division A, transfer all of them to Division B, and as far as the CGC knows, that's 5,000 people out of work, when, in reality, they are all still working full-time for the same company, in a different division. All the CGC people do, really, is search through media sources for layoff anouncements, and add up the numbers.  At best that's nothing more than a broad gauge of future sentiment, and briefing.com and thestreet.com don't even include the CGC on their economic calendars.

Additionally, the CGC isn't seasonally adjusted.  Sep-Jan are historically times when layoffs increase, so if you see a jump in the CGC during the fall and winter, it doesn't really tell you all that much.

And, of course, the CGC doesn't really tell you why compnaies are planning these layoffs.  Kodak just announced they were laying of 15,000 people, because the rise in digital photography is reducing the demand for film.  But what can we do about that?  Not much.  Those people are losing their jobs because technology is moving into a new area, and nobody needs to buy film anymore.  It's hard to see what that tells us about the economy as a whole, though.

In essence, the CGC does exactly what it's designed to do, which is to get  Challenger, Gray and Christmas mentioned in the media, for free, on a regular basis.  It does that very well.

So here is the problem. Dale explains what these numbers do or do not signify and it's a pretty honest look at the numbers my boss thinks should be pinned on Bush. In essence, it's a refutation of his 'facts' which really are just a bunch of numbers he doesn't understand but look bad for the man he hates so much.

Now, my dilemma is this. Should I send him Dale's information? Information from a true economist who has more knowledge about the subject should carry enough weight, shouldn't it?

What I am battling with is if I would do so because I want him to see the light (and it's more than likely he'll just shut his eyes and ignore this or simply move the goal posts) or if I'm really just trying to get the last word in. Part of me just wants to ignore the emails because, well, after Dale's information and a little bit of research have proven to me the facts and I have made up my own mind about it and that should be that. Deep inside I actually am satisfied that I did a little research and found answers.

The other part of me wants to prove that I am not someone who bases his opinions on a news clip here and there and that trying to argue a point with me isn't going to be an easy task since I am more than willing to do a little research to find the truth (proving me right or wrong). Part of me wants to do so because already I've fended off another person at work when I wouldn't back down on what I believed in and ended up putting him in a corner trying to defend the indefensible (this guy asked me to prove anything was a lie in F9/11 and when I did, he changed the subject and stopped talking politics to me).

The third part of me says "f*ck it, let's go get a butterscotch sundae".

Any help is appreciated.

rolled out on Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:46 PM
Comments
# RE: Moral Conundrum - ctob

Rolled Out On: 10/7/2004 9:57 PM

This guy is clearly trying to stick it to you. This is made clear by the "lets hear the spin" with the fake smile. He has already stated anything you say would be taken at polemic and not data.

You therefore should ignore him, if its mentioned again simply smile knowingly. The best revenge is living well. Hope Bush wins.

# RE: Moral Conundrum - Norman

Rolled Out On: 10/7/2004 10:09 PM

My never humble opinion would be that sending him the actual facts (or telling him) would be a waste of time. Sounds like he's convinced Bush is the cause of all the world's ills (even when it's not really an ill). Facts don't matter to zealots. But you might mention to him that the unemployment figures are now at the same level as when Clinton was re-elected. Won't convince him, but might feel good to get a jab in. Otherwise, I'd let it go.

# RE: Moral Conundrum - SphinctOr

Rolled Out On: 10/8/2004 7:34 AM


Hate is a hard thing to overcome. And some "spun" facts (as he will see it) will make no difference to him. It's not like he will actually digest this new data and investigate it further. That's his problem in the first place.

Don't waste your time...just be happy with the fact that you take the extra effort to sort through the facts and come up with an educated conclusion. And that you have the intestinal fortitude to admit when you are right OR wrong.


SphinctOr

# RE: Moral Conundrum - Jack Grey

Rolled Out On: 10/8/2004 8:53 AM

I work in the one of the most liberal zip codes in the most liberal city in Texas. All day I deal with people wearing "Bush Lied!" and "No Blood for Oil" pins. Mostly, I just ignore it- 'cause I know I'm not going to change any minds. A few of my co-workers, however, are open to reasonable debate. This usually means me pointing out that what they've been told isn't exactly factual, and then backing it up.
Does it change any minds? I doubt it... but it does tend to make them Move On to something else. Sometimes, we just agree to disagree- and that may be the best you can hope for in your case.

I would probably tell your boss' boss that you thank him for the info but instead of just taking it at face value, you researched it and found out more.

Or, do what I sometimes do with the annoying ones: Thank him, and tell him you'll give special mention of him in your nightly report to Karl Rove...

# RE: Moral Conundrum - Robb Allen

Rolled Out On: 10/8/2004 9:38 AM

Yeah, thanks a lot Jack, now I'm going to be mulling that one over all day.

Morals tend to get real cloudy when there's actual fun involved ;)

# RE: Moral Conundrum - Sissy Willis

Rolled Out On: 10/8/2004 10:03 AM

First of all, say f**k it and go get a Beefeater Martini, straight up with an olive. I'm afraid that logic and facts are useless in the face of true believers.

# RE: Moral Conundrum - TC-LeatherPenguin

Rolled Out On: 10/8/2004 11:54 AM

It's a no win situation, Saam. You can cite facts all day long and you'll make nary a dent in them. You'll end up frustrated and inclined to call them (ahem) disparaging names. Or you'll have to bottle it up to protect your employment.

On the other hand, salacious and/or incriminating photos of these pair of wahoos could, lets say, get some distance from the politics and bring them back to earth.

Tell them, "Okay, you win. I'm treating at the bar."
Bring plenty of dough and a digital camera/audio recorder.

End. Of. Problem.

# RE: Moral Conundrum - Ripper

Rolled Out On: 10/8/2004 12:14 PM

More strategically, you may find that layers within the organization have political gaps.

One place I know had a left wing owner, hard right VPs and Perotista managers.

In this case the CGC numbers are drastically radical compared to the Kerry numbers, so you may have a Dean layer on top of Kerry people.

# RE: Moral Conundrum - King of Fools

Rolled Out On: 10/8/2004 1:20 PM

I'm with Jack on this one. If you have facts, then make sure there is no spittle on your chin and calmly state that you think those numbers are meaningless, and here is why. Lay it out clearly with no (visible) malice.

The guy will either A) say Wow, B) start talking about no WMDS (change the subject) or C) deny that your facts have merit. I find such discussions go so much better when I'm not saying "Hey - look at this. This is why you should believe this!" but instead "This is what I think, and why I feel that way. Where are you at on the issue?"

# RE: Moral Conundrum - DC

Rolled Out On: 10/9/2004 1:23 AM

Hmm. I figure its best to keep things like politics out of work especially when your boss is on the other side of the aisle. Best to let it slide and wait till Nov 3rd - hopefully Bush wins and your boss' head explodes from sheer exasperation. Problem solved :)

# RE: Moral Conundrum - Maxim

Rolled Out On: 10/9/2004 7:34 PM

Your third alternative, the one with the butterscotch sundae, looks like the best choice. Regardless of the environment, you are not going to do a quick change of anyone's entrenched political opinion by direct discussion. At work, and especially with your management, it gets worse. Then it goes from being a no-win proposition to one where you could lose big. At some point, your boss's boss may decide he is tired of the political banter -- and tired of you because of it. IF it gets to that point, he could easily forget that he was a willing participant in the discussions and start talking himself into a lower opinion of you. That could shade the performance management results. Will this necessarily happen? No. Has it happened to other people? You bet. (And if your boss's boss doesn't get upset, there could be some dingdong in a nearby cubicle who quietly takes all this in, waits, and then has an injured talk with your boss's boss's boss.)

Hope this didn't sound too stern. I agree with your opinions, and I admire your site. I'd just not like to see you get zapped for what seemed like innocent discussion.

# RE: Moral Conundrum - Old Patriot

Rolled Out On: 10/9/2004 8:10 PM

You could always say you got this "other" email (suitably edited), and you don't understand. Then ask your boss to explain it to you, as if you're an idiot and can't see the difference. Make it sound like you want to really, really believe your boss, but still don't know what to make of the other email. Your boss will either dismiss it out of hand, or try to answer. If he tries the second option, watch him spin, twist, corkscrew, and completely turn purple while trying to interpret something he has no concept of. Stand/sit there as if you're hearing words from God, then go have a good laugh in the appropriate safe place.

I love to shaft, spindle, mutilate, and deflate people who have so little intellectual integrity they'd actually vote for johnny sKerry (and yes, I'm a Vietnam Vet, and would love to do nasty things to sKerry himself, but that's another post.

# RE: Moral Conundrum - Tim Worstall

Rolled Out On: 10/11/2004 6:54 AM

As another person interested in economics (not a professional, just an interested amateur) there is a second reason why the CGC numbers don't look right. One to ask your boss' boss.
"When this company hires people does it issue a press release?"
If not, why do you think that monitoring press releases gives an accurate measurement of hiring and firing?
Re the moral conundrum, perhaps the boss' boss will not like someone actually thinking about numbers, figures and the truths which they do or do not show about the world. If that is so, he's an idiot and the company is going to go down the pan.
Answer him, measure the reaction and if he doesn't at least acknowledge your points, start looking for a company with a long-term future. And when you leave, tell him why.

Comments have been closed on this topic.
 
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