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It’s from one of my neighbors
Hello Everyone;
The item below came from one of our members in the community. We thought it wise to pass it around to everyone:
I wanted to let you know that Friday night around 6:45pm my door bell rang and I did not look before opening the door because I was expecting a friend and it was three males with white skeleton masks on. They were standing side by side shoulder to shoulder. The Sheriff’s department had gotten other reports of 3 suspicious males walking around with masks. These were white males about 16-18 years of age. I am not sure if they live in our neighborhood, were casing the house, playing a prank, were planning a home invasion or a sick prank…however I was lucky. I wanted to make the other neighbors aware for their safety and as the Sheriff department noted these males safety is in danger if they were playing a sick joke. Going to the wrong door could get them shot etc.
Thanks
Be Safe
Now, I won’t actually answer the door should I see three young punks with masks, but I assure you the sound of a round chambering into a shotgun will be all the answer they need.
Although this brings up some interesting scenarios. Three men in masks are a threat. Anyone who shows up to your door with their face covered in an attempt to hide their identity is the bad guy (badge or not). You do not have the luxury of assuming they are there for a harmless prank.
Now, my front door is quite solid which is for naught because the frame has a window next to it. This means I can see the entire foyer area clearly, but it also means they can see me and, should they punch through the glass, could ostensibly get the door open.
- Not answering at all (which is what I do when there are solicitors) is not a great option here since, if they are casing, it gives the impression of nobody being home.
- If my kids or wife look out to see who it is, it tells the punks that there might be easy pickings inside.
- If *I* answer, it will be at the window, clearly and visibly armed, but I won’t open. I run the risk of ‘advertising’ there are firearms inside, but I believe it would mark our residence as more difficult of a target than elsewhere.
Part of me would want to pin them down until the cops arrive, but alas wearing masks does not grant one the right to use deadly force (otherwise, Halloween at the Allen residence would be a 911 dispatcher’s worst nightmare) and pointing a gun at them is deadly force, whether you pull the trigger or not. It bugs the shit out of me that I’d have to let the cretins walk off, but I’m not the bloodthirsty cop-wannabe that the anti’s makes us out as. And then there are the court costs that would stack up from such actions, even if I was in the right.
What would you do?
Comments
Divemedic
says:
A couple of legal points here:
What they are doing is illegal:
876.14 Wearing mask, hood, or other device on property of another.—No person or persons over 16 years of age shall, while wearing a mask, hood, or device whereby any portion of the face is so hidden, concealed, or covered as to conceal the identity of the wearer, demand entrance or admission or enter or come upon or into the premises, enclosure, or house of any other person in any municipality or county of this state.
It is a second degree misdemeanor.
Also, pointing a gun at someone in order to ward off an attack in the state of Florida is, as a matter of law, NOT lethal force. (see Riviero v. State, 871 So. 2nd 953 (FLA 3DCA 2004))
Since 3 persons wearing masks are knocking on your door after dark, and it is NOT Halloween, it would be reasonable to assume that they are there for nefarious and criminal purposes. IMHO, you would be justified in pointing a gun at them and telling them to cease their trespass.
I have the additional benefit of having a "No Trespassing" sign right above the doorbell button. Anyone who rings the doorbell without being invited is trespassing with warning, which is a first degree misdemeanor.
What they are doing is illegal:
876.14 Wearing mask, hood, or other device on property of another.—No person or persons over 16 years of age shall, while wearing a mask, hood, or device whereby any portion of the face is so hidden, concealed, or covered as to conceal the identity of the wearer, demand entrance or admission or enter or come upon or into the premises, enclosure, or house of any other person in any municipality or county of this state.
It is a second degree misdemeanor.
Also, pointing a gun at someone in order to ward off an attack in the state of Florida is, as a matter of law, NOT lethal force. (see Riviero v. State, 871 So. 2nd 953 (FLA 3DCA 2004))
Since 3 persons wearing masks are knocking on your door after dark, and it is NOT Halloween, it would be reasonable to assume that they are there for nefarious and criminal purposes. IMHO, you would be justified in pointing a gun at them and telling them to cease their trespass.
I have the additional benefit of having a "No Trespassing" sign right above the doorbell button. Anyone who rings the doorbell without being invited is trespassing with warning, which is a first degree misdemeanor.
Divemedic
says:
Of course there have. Look at the Zimmerman case. There is no guarantee that you won't be prosecuted for shooting a guy standing over your wife with a bloody knife in his hand. That isn't going to stop me from doing what I need to do, though.
A security screen door can be pretty useful, I sure feel more comfortable answering the door with it between me and the "guest". Being armed and having the certainty that they're goingto have to display some pretty aggressive behavior to get that screen open is enough for me to feel comfortable offering them some superfluous bodily ventilation, if necessary. In your situation, perhaps some laminated glass would also be useful in that window next to the door?
May I also recommend a steel L bracket on your door frame to prevent someone who has broken the window from reaching the door lock.
I had a similar situation, with one advantage: the developer had seen fit to put a street light right next to my driveway that lit up the entire front of the house, although not real brightly, but bright enough to identify faces. The solutions were: double cylinder deadbolts (keep a key near the door but well out of reach from the adjacent glass); frosted window film on the adjacent glass (movement can be detected from outside but without any definition- it's just shadows); a large diameter peephole in the door (low enough so shorter adults can see through it); motion sensing porch lights so anyone approaching the door does so in bright light. And, there was a highly visible "No Trespassing, No Soliciting" sign prominently displayed next to the front entry - anyone approaching the house had to walk right at it whether they came up the driveway or crossed the lawn, and the motion sensing lights illuminated it as well. (BTW, it pays to have something blocking the door - if you;re looking through the peephole when the Bad Guys kick the door in you're going on your butt).
On the very few occasions where unidentifiable types presented themselves at the front door late, and I didn't choose to yell through the door for them to go away, I often elected to go out the back door and around the garage to greet them from behind while they stood at the door. That accomplished multiple things - it gave me a chance to clear the back of the house in case I was dealing with a team who was seeking to distract me at the front door while someone entered my fenced back yard (there were motion sensing lights back there, too, but they didn't cover everything), it enabled me to pick the 45 off the coffee table as I went to the back door, and the back yard gate to the front was not visible from the driveway so I could survey any vehicles from there (it was also latched from the inside to increase the degree of difficulty of entering the back yard; there was a trick method of opening it from the outside that one had to know about to operate).
Since Florida law allows open carry on your own property, introducing myself with a sidearm visible was an attention-getter without the potential ramifications of being accused of pointing it. I had the option of standing so it was struck by the porch light or not, depending on whether or not I considered it advantageous for it to be known
that I was packing.
Each of the few times it happened was either a friend of a neighbor or someone who had a sales route to finish, darkness be damned.
The neighbors who sent friends over all got reminded they needed to call me first, without explaining why that was such a necessary step. What I knew that they didn't seemed best kept that way. Salespeople had their solicitor's license info copied down (required in Florida), and if they were unlicensed I requested their driver's license for the info. Usually didn't get it, but it was a reminder that the "No Trespassing" sign constituted legal First Warning of Trespass and ringing the doorbell constituted a misdemeanor.
A tip: reinforce the latch side and the hinge side of the door frame - there are ready-made kits just for that. One trick the bad guys use is ring the bell, count to 10 and kick the door in.
Another tip: put one lamp, centrally located, on a UPS, and use a "failed circuit alarm" to let you know power to the house has been cut (extra points for picking a lamp that illuminates the front door, providing Target Identification). Bad Guy Trick #4 is kill the main breaker outside, count to 6 so the occupants have time to become disoriented, and kick in the door. The outside accomplice counts to 15 after he hears the door kick and restores power.
On the very few occasions where unidentifiable types presented themselves at the front door late, and I didn't choose to yell through the door for them to go away, I often elected to go out the back door and around the garage to greet them from behind while they stood at the door. That accomplished multiple things - it gave me a chance to clear the back of the house in case I was dealing with a team who was seeking to distract me at the front door while someone entered my fenced back yard (there were motion sensing lights back there, too, but they didn't cover everything), it enabled me to pick the 45 off the coffee table as I went to the back door, and the back yard gate to the front was not visible from the driveway so I could survey any vehicles from there (it was also latched from the inside to increase the degree of difficulty of entering the back yard; there was a trick method of opening it from the outside that one had to know about to operate).
Since Florida law allows open carry on your own property, introducing myself with a sidearm visible was an attention-getter without the potential ramifications of being accused of pointing it. I had the option of standing so it was struck by the porch light or not, depending on whether or not I considered it advantageous for it to be known
that I was packing.
Each of the few times it happened was either a friend of a neighbor or someone who had a sales route to finish, darkness be damned.
The neighbors who sent friends over all got reminded they needed to call me first, without explaining why that was such a necessary step. What I knew that they didn't seemed best kept that way. Salespeople had their solicitor's license info copied down (required in Florida), and if they were unlicensed I requested their driver's license for the info. Usually didn't get it, but it was a reminder that the "No Trespassing" sign constituted legal First Warning of Trespass and ringing the doorbell constituted a misdemeanor.
A tip: reinforce the latch side and the hinge side of the door frame - there are ready-made kits just for that. One trick the bad guys use is ring the bell, count to 10 and kick the door in.
Another tip: put one lamp, centrally located, on a UPS, and use a "failed circuit alarm" to let you know power to the house has been cut (extra points for picking a lamp that illuminates the front door, providing Target Identification). Bad Guy Trick #4 is kill the main breaker outside, count to 6 so the occupants have time to become disoriented, and kick in the door. The outside accomplice counts to 15 after he hears the door kick and restores power.
Miguel
says:
Robb, You don't have to shoot or even display your weapon. You just have to convince the masked men that you are gonna shoot them.
"HONEY! THE ROBBERS ARE HERE! CALL 911, I AM GOING FOR THE SHOTGUN!"
I imagine that you being in SW Florida, your door opens outwards.
"HONEY! THE ROBBERS ARE HERE! CALL 911, I AM GOING FOR THE SHOTGUN!"
I imagine that you being in SW Florida, your door opens outwards.
I'm not saying you should call the police and say you thought you saw a gun in the tall one's hand. The police are busy, and if they respond to a man-with-gun call, they might be overzealous and hurt some innocent lamb. If the kids were searched without a warrant and found to actually have an illegal weapon or drugs, I think we would all be deeply saddened by the violation of civil liberties.
In the past 10 years or so we have had a few home invasion/murders in my neck of the woods. I have been teaching my girls that when Daddy opens the door, they are to be well back, usually all the way into the living room. This serves as a reminder to refresh that training.
The email from you neighbor just says "I was lucky". What the hell does that mean? Did the guys see his fierce Pomeranian and bravely run away? Did the guys nicely ask for a glass of water then leave? Did the one on the right just say "aw dang, you too ugly to rape" and walk away? Did Gandalf appear and yell "Dawn take you all, and be stone to you!" and now he has 3 yard trolls?
s
The email from you neighbor just says "I was lucky". What the hell does that mean? Did the guys see his fierce Pomeranian and bravely run away? Did the guys nicely ask for a glass of water then leave? Did the one on the right just say "aw dang, you too ugly to rape" and walk away? Did Gandalf appear and yell "Dawn take you all, and be stone to you!" and now he has 3 yard trolls?
s
Well, one of the first things we did when we got his house was to take out the regular Door Light and replace it with a Photo Cell/ Motion Detector Light. Then I scotched taped the light switch to "on". So, when the Sun goes down, the Light come on "Low," until someone walks up, then it goes on "High." Try that.
The next thing I did was get a Lockable Security Screen Door. That enables me to open the Main Door w/o having someone coming in. Try that.
The last thing I've done which will NOT WORK FOR HOMES WITH KIDS is that I put the 2 inch Barrel on the Dan Wesson and load it with .38 +P JHPs, and that is in a Drawer in an End Table by the Door. So, if someone tries to get through the Screen Door, I have enough time to get out the Revolver.
Now, being in Florida, you should be able to get some of that "Shatter Proof" Film for use in Hurricanes. I'd attach that to that Window by the Door, just in case.
Oh, and I've done the same thing with the Lights on the Back Door, also.
But in Ohio, we also have "Castle Doctrine", and the Prosecutors really don't even try to go after the Home Owners when it's Blatantly Obvious that the Goblins had it coming. Just be sure to call 911 RIGHT After the Shooting, AND your Lawyer, AND Don't be saying stuff to the Police until your Lawyer gets there. See Mas Ayoob for more details.
Hope this helps.
The next thing I did was get a Lockable Security Screen Door. That enables me to open the Main Door w/o having someone coming in. Try that.
The last thing I've done which will NOT WORK FOR HOMES WITH KIDS is that I put the 2 inch Barrel on the Dan Wesson and load it with .38 +P JHPs, and that is in a Drawer in an End Table by the Door. So, if someone tries to get through the Screen Door, I have enough time to get out the Revolver.
Now, being in Florida, you should be able to get some of that "Shatter Proof" Film for use in Hurricanes. I'd attach that to that Window by the Door, just in case.
Oh, and I've done the same thing with the Lights on the Back Door, also.
But in Ohio, we also have "Castle Doctrine", and the Prosecutors really don't even try to go after the Home Owners when it's Blatantly Obvious that the Goblins had it coming. Just be sure to call 911 RIGHT After the Shooting, AND your Lawyer, AND Don't be saying stuff to the Police until your Lawyer gets there. See Mas Ayoob for more details.
Hope this helps.
wizardpc
says:
I dont understand all this talk of "enough time to get to the gun."
Pocket guns are cheap. When I roll out of bed in the morning, i put on my pants and slip a keltec in my pocket (in a pocket holster). When I go to bed, it comes out and goes on the nightstand.
I never have to worry about going to get the gun. I already have it. A keltec is barely a gun, but it's enough.
Pocket guns are cheap. When I roll out of bed in the morning, i put on my pants and slip a keltec in my pocket (in a pocket holster). When I go to bed, it comes out and goes on the nightstand.
I never have to worry about going to get the gun. I already have it. A keltec is barely a gun, but it's enough.
Jon
says:
We put in one of the security screen doors with a reinforced frame. If I'm not expecting you I don't answer the door, but I do go check to see who is there. Armed.
I always answer the door with my M&P or Glock visible on my hip. My friends know it will be there and anyone else will find out. If I decide to open the door for anyone else...
TS
TS
I'm always amazed at the folks who actually think and believe that the sound of a shell being racked into the chamber of a pump shotgun will scare off bad guys intent on doing them harm. First off, the sound rarely ever carries through the door. Second, those bad guys are not focused on listening to much of anything, least of all the faint noise of a pump action.
Just about everyone who says they carry a pistol/revolver to the door has that weapon loaded and in ready-to-fire consdition. Why do folks bring unloaded shotguns to their doors? About the only thing worse than bringing an unloaded firearm to the door is the notion that you can reach your stashed pistol/revolver/shotgun when the bad guys crash through the door. (Have you evere done a drill [all weapons unloaded, of course] with the door just off the latch so you do not end up needing to replace it? It's a real eye-opener for folks that rely on a stashed gun.
stay safe.
Just about everyone who says they carry a pistol/revolver to the door has that weapon loaded and in ready-to-fire consdition. Why do folks bring unloaded shotguns to their doors? About the only thing worse than bringing an unloaded firearm to the door is the notion that you can reach your stashed pistol/revolver/shotgun when the bad guys crash through the door. (Have you evere done a drill [all weapons unloaded, of course] with the door just off the latch so you do not end up needing to replace it? It's a real eye-opener for folks that rely on a stashed gun.
stay safe.
Comments have been closed on this topic.
So far everyone has wandered away without incident.
If someone kicks down the door, it'll be a rather short visit.