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It’s time to build a new PC. I don’t want to buy a prefab one so I need to figure out the parts necessary. Alas, I’m awash in a sea of choices from CPU to memory to motherboards. And it’s been so long I’m not sure what will work best for me.
Let me explain my needs and hopefully there’s some stuff you can point me to.
- I’m a Microsoft developer, so while most of you will probably recoil in horror, I’ll be upgrading to Windows 8 Pro.
- Win8 Pro has Hyper-V as a service, which means I can run my server on the same box, so virtualization is very important.
- I will not be overclocking. While I like to play a good game from time to time, I’m not one of those people who feel the need to squeeze every last CPU cycle possible out of the system
- I want 32G of memory
- I want an Intel based CPU (I have no love for AMD any more). i7 is fine, but I can’t afford an Extreme
- I will need to raid several SATA Tb drives. I have 2 that are 3Gbps and one the is 6Gbps. Not sure if they all can be raided or not.
- I will have a 120Gb SSD SATA 6Gbps drive
- I have SLI ready video cards (although probably will only run one due to heat)
- My budget, including a new 120g SSD, Case + Power supply is around $800. That’s flexible if I need it to be, but I’d prefer not to.
Looking at i7 chips, it’s difficult for me to know which version to get. I don’t want K versions since I need the virtualization features on the locked chips more than I need the ability to overclock, but I don’t know if Ivy or Sandy is a better bang for my dollar or if 3770 or 3780 or whatever is where I should be focusing.
I don’t mind ordering online if some place has really, really good pricing and good customer service. I’m cool with paying *just* a bit more from CompUSA since I can do returns in the store down the road rather than have to ship things off (and you know how touchy computers can be when you build them. Parts are DOA all the time).
Hints? Thoughts? Pointers?
Comments
Intel seems to me, from a professional stand point, to be a more with-it organization. Several years ago you could order their entire 6 volume developer guide, including basic architechure reference, instruction set reference, system programming guide and optimization reference for free, including free shipping. They've since discontinued providing printed manuals at all, but you can still get the entire thing free online. AMD on the other hand? I couldn't even find a pdf on their web site with an instruction set reference.
Paul Wirtz
says:
Take a look at http://pcper.com/hwlb
I am not associated with them at all but like the suggested builds and reviews of the recommended items.
I am not associated with them at all but like the suggested builds and reviews of the recommended items.
Knitebane
says:
"I have SLI ready video cards (although probably will only run one due to heat)"
Add more fans to the case. The case normally has additional spots for fans, and you can always find even more. Try to mount one (or more) blowing directly on the hot cards, but especially add fans pulling air into the front of the case. (mount in front to blow over the drives) (Might have to drill/cut some air holes) Do the same on the rear. Be careful of the normal vents in the sides. If you get enough fans front/rear to get the air moving through the volume, those side vents can be a bypass that wastes the effort. I usually end up taping them over on the inside.
You don't want to depend on the fan in the power supply for card cooling. Heat kills them, besides voltage fluctuations. If possible, run a duct from one of those side vents to the PS so it sucks cool outside air.
My B-I-L had a tower he used for a server, and that thing came with maybe 10 internal 4" fans. (think it had a steel frame, heavy sucker!)
Add more fans to the case. The case normally has additional spots for fans, and you can always find even more. Try to mount one (or more) blowing directly on the hot cards, but especially add fans pulling air into the front of the case. (mount in front to blow over the drives) (Might have to drill/cut some air holes) Do the same on the rear. Be careful of the normal vents in the sides. If you get enough fans front/rear to get the air moving through the volume, those side vents can be a bypass that wastes the effort. I usually end up taping them over on the inside.
You don't want to depend on the fan in the power supply for card cooling. Heat kills them, besides voltage fluctuations. If possible, run a duct from one of those side vents to the PS so it sucks cool outside air.
My B-I-L had a tower he used for a server, and that thing came with maybe 10 internal 4" fans. (think it had a steel frame, heavy sucker!)
George
says:
Really, really, REALLY rethink the Windows 8 plan.
I say this as a former Microsoftie. I upgraded to the gold bits, and three weeks later downgraded again b/c of the productivity hit.
I say this as a former Microsoftie. I upgraded to the gold bits, and three weeks later downgraded again b/c of the productivity hit.
Can't really give you advice for components but this is my go to place to buy from
http://www.newegg.com/
http://www.newegg.com/
$800 is going to be tight, Robb. A few questions:
1) What are the video cards? That is necessary to know how large to size the PSU?
2) Are you planning to use the 120GB SSD as a boot drive and mirror the SATA HDDs? What is the 6Gbs SATA drive model? Most mechanicals are 3Gbs. You won't be able to realistically raid a 6GBs SSD and a mechanical on the 6GBs SATA ports.
3) What kind of space footprint and noise level are you looking for?
There is no real difference for your needs between Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge. Keep in mind, a Core i7-3770 will set you back $259-$299 alone. You're going to need a decent and beefy power supply. In my builds, a PSU is a significant fraction of my budget because I use high-end enthusiast or professional grade power supplies. Mainly Corsair and PC Power & Cooling.
I recommend Corsair highly as I had a GS800 800W gaming supply powering a Core i7-960 with a GTX560Ti that developed voltage issues. I contacted Corsair for an RMA. No receipt and they had me send it back. A week later, a new power supply showed up in the mail. I use PC Power & Cooling 600W Silencer Mk.III PSUs in machines where dual video cards aren't required.
For example, here is the machine I use for similar work even though I am a Java and Android developer:
Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge CPU - $299
Gigabyte Z68MA-D2H-B3 mATX - $72
32GB G.Skill ARES DDR-1600 - $144
Radeon 6850 1GB video card - $150
PC Power & Cooling Silencer Mk.III 600W 80+ Bronze PSU - $99
2 x OCZ Agility3 120GB SSD - $198
Seagate Momentus 2.5" 750GB 7200rpm 3Gbs HDD - $99
Fractal Design Core mATX case - $39
Total: $1100
All prices from NewEgg. My build was slightly cheaper as my builds are done from Micro Center (sorry, none near you) and they tend to discount CPUs and boards below NewEgg. I have the same issue as you as I like to be able to bring parts back. I had 3 bad Mushkin SSDs back-to-back from NewEgg and the RMA costs got to the point that any savings I had I ate in RMA shipping.
The machine above is cooled on air. I use closed-loop liquid coolers on my other machines. I recommend them highly for the extra $70 or so.
1) What are the video cards? That is necessary to know how large to size the PSU?
2) Are you planning to use the 120GB SSD as a boot drive and mirror the SATA HDDs? What is the 6Gbs SATA drive model? Most mechanicals are 3Gbs. You won't be able to realistically raid a 6GBs SSD and a mechanical on the 6GBs SATA ports.
3) What kind of space footprint and noise level are you looking for?
There is no real difference for your needs between Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge. Keep in mind, a Core i7-3770 will set you back $259-$299 alone. You're going to need a decent and beefy power supply. In my builds, a PSU is a significant fraction of my budget because I use high-end enthusiast or professional grade power supplies. Mainly Corsair and PC Power & Cooling.
I recommend Corsair highly as I had a GS800 800W gaming supply powering a Core i7-960 with a GTX560Ti that developed voltage issues. I contacted Corsair for an RMA. No receipt and they had me send it back. A week later, a new power supply showed up in the mail. I use PC Power & Cooling 600W Silencer Mk.III PSUs in machines where dual video cards aren't required.
For example, here is the machine I use for similar work even though I am a Java and Android developer:
Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge CPU - $299
Gigabyte Z68MA-D2H-B3 mATX - $72
32GB G.Skill ARES DDR-1600 - $144
Radeon 6850 1GB video card - $150
PC Power & Cooling Silencer Mk.III 600W 80+ Bronze PSU - $99
2 x OCZ Agility3 120GB SSD - $198
Seagate Momentus 2.5" 750GB 7200rpm 3Gbs HDD - $99
Fractal Design Core mATX case - $39
Total: $1100
All prices from NewEgg. My build was slightly cheaper as my builds are done from Micro Center (sorry, none near you) and they tend to discount CPUs and boards below NewEgg. I have the same issue as you as I like to be able to bring parts back. I had 3 bad Mushkin SSDs back-to-back from NewEgg and the RMA costs got to the point that any savings I had I ate in RMA shipping.
The machine above is cooled on air. I use closed-loop liquid coolers on my other machines. I recommend them highly for the extra $70 or so.
I find the Tech Report system guides are well researched and planned out.
http://techreport.com/review/23814/system-guide-current
http://techreport.com/review/23814/system-guide-current
Gregory Morris
says:
$800 is a tight budget for an i7 machine with 32GB of memory.
However, since you already have a lot of the parts, you shouldn't have much trouble parting together a decent mobo/cpu/memory combo on Newegg (even if you buy elsewhere, I like using their site to pick out good combos.)
The one I just built a few months ago has:
ASUS P8P67
4x8GB DDR3 2133
i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz
My OS and swap are on two 128GB SSDs, but everything else lives on a pair of 7200RPM Barracudas. The motherboard has onboard RAID, but I am not using it yet (when I can afford a few more drives, I'll go RAID.)
I also got a nice case (Fractal Designs) and power supply (Kingwin) to make sure my box is silent and has enough juice... On your budget, I'd suggest using your existing ugly case and power supply, and put the saved money into better hardware. Sometimes slickdeals.net has good deals on SSDs if you want to move your OS to solid state to get better boot times.
However, since you already have a lot of the parts, you shouldn't have much trouble parting together a decent mobo/cpu/memory combo on Newegg (even if you buy elsewhere, I like using their site to pick out good combos.)
The one I just built a few months ago has:
ASUS P8P67
4x8GB DDR3 2133
i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz
My OS and swap are on two 128GB SSDs, but everything else lives on a pair of 7200RPM Barracudas. The motherboard has onboard RAID, but I am not using it yet (when I can afford a few more drives, I'll go RAID.)
I also got a nice case (Fractal Designs) and power supply (Kingwin) to make sure my box is silent and has enough juice... On your budget, I'd suggest using your existing ugly case and power supply, and put the saved money into better hardware. Sometimes slickdeals.net has good deals on SSDs if you want to move your OS to solid state to get better boot times.
Robb,
Assuming you have a decent power supply, you can stick with your current case. Bouncing around on Newegg, I can recommend a Core i7-3770. On mainboard, really any Z77-based board with two PCIe slots will suffice from a decent builder. I recommend ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI or ASRock. I run ASUS, Gigabyte and ASRock boards. Since you aren't overclocking (and can't with the 3770), I tend to knock out the MSI and ASRock parts as well as the enthusiast grade ASUS and Gigabyte parts.
For example, I priced out a Gigabyte GA-Z77MX-D3H at $119. Meets the requirements and there are dozens of boards in that general range that would meet your needs.
Memory, Corsair Vengeance 32GB DDR3-1600 quad-channel and reasonably low latency. Again, any quality kit from Corsair, Kingston or G,Skill works. I use all three equally.
Round that out with a pair of Intel 330 120GB SSDs. Or Samsung 840. I recommend these as they are enterprise-grade parts. Intel is the gold standard in SSDs for endurance and reliability. I used OCZ hardware exclusively but I know data centers are build around Intel units. The Intel desktop parts are more than workable. Cost differential between a Intel 330 and a comparable OCZ part is only a few dollars. If you opt for OCZ, stick to their Vertex3 and higher lines for write performance. The Agility3 lines read slightly faster at the cost of some write performance. I use both. My development machine is wrapped around a single OCZ 120GB Vertex3. But it is Linux-based with no swap and I backup to a Netgear NAS.
Going with the i7-3770, GA-Z77MX-D3H, Corsair 32GB RAM and 2 x Intel 330, your build comes in at $785 if you reuse your existing case, PSU, video cards and existing mechanical drives.
If you need a new PSU, I recommend any of the Corsair TX or HX series supplies, modular or not as desired, 650W or higher. The reason is the Corsair supplies use a single 12V rail so can properly handle both cards. Add fans as desired or a Corsair H70 or Antec 620 closed loop cooler for quiet operation.
It's really preference once you've selected the CPU. Just wrap the parts around it. Frankly, any DDR3-1333 memory kit works fine as it is the SSDs that really matter. Unless you're gaming hardcore, you'll notice virtually no difference and anything above DDR3-1600 is a waste if you can't overclock the CPU. Stability is more important and the stock parts work fine.
Assuming you have a decent power supply, you can stick with your current case. Bouncing around on Newegg, I can recommend a Core i7-3770. On mainboard, really any Z77-based board with two PCIe slots will suffice from a decent builder. I recommend ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI or ASRock. I run ASUS, Gigabyte and ASRock boards. Since you aren't overclocking (and can't with the 3770), I tend to knock out the MSI and ASRock parts as well as the enthusiast grade ASUS and Gigabyte parts.
For example, I priced out a Gigabyte GA-Z77MX-D3H at $119. Meets the requirements and there are dozens of boards in that general range that would meet your needs.
Memory, Corsair Vengeance 32GB DDR3-1600 quad-channel and reasonably low latency. Again, any quality kit from Corsair, Kingston or G,Skill works. I use all three equally.
Round that out with a pair of Intel 330 120GB SSDs. Or Samsung 840. I recommend these as they are enterprise-grade parts. Intel is the gold standard in SSDs for endurance and reliability. I used OCZ hardware exclusively but I know data centers are build around Intel units. The Intel desktop parts are more than workable. Cost differential between a Intel 330 and a comparable OCZ part is only a few dollars. If you opt for OCZ, stick to their Vertex3 and higher lines for write performance. The Agility3 lines read slightly faster at the cost of some write performance. I use both. My development machine is wrapped around a single OCZ 120GB Vertex3. But it is Linux-based with no swap and I backup to a Netgear NAS.
Going with the i7-3770, GA-Z77MX-D3H, Corsair 32GB RAM and 2 x Intel 330, your build comes in at $785 if you reuse your existing case, PSU, video cards and existing mechanical drives.
If you need a new PSU, I recommend any of the Corsair TX or HX series supplies, modular or not as desired, 650W or higher. The reason is the Corsair supplies use a single 12V rail so can properly handle both cards. Add fans as desired or a Corsair H70 or Antec 620 closed loop cooler for quiet operation.
It's really preference once you've selected the CPU. Just wrap the parts around it. Frankly, any DDR3-1333 memory kit works fine as it is the SSDs that really matter. Unless you're gaming hardcore, you'll notice virtually no difference and anything above DDR3-1600 is a waste if you can't overclock the CPU. Stability is more important and the stock parts work fine.
My (bitter) experience tells me that if you are going SSD, then you had better have frequent backups.
Of four OCZ SSD drives that I have owned, three failed within a year - the fourth is only two weeks old.
Alternatively, mirror them, and have a third ready to swap in.
Of four OCZ SSD drives that I have owned, three failed within a year - the fourth is only two weeks old.
Alternatively, mirror them, and have a third ready to swap in.
Funny, I just built my first machine in years. Most everything we use is rackmount server based, and I am a big fan of Supermicro. We deployed 3600 of them for a single project and don't regret it.
It had been so long since building anything that I had to dig around a lot, and ended up using a barebones Shuttle SH67H3 that might fit your needs. It'll take the i7 and 32GB of RAM, plus there is room for two 3.5" spindles and a larger 5.25 if you want DVD. It has room for that NVidia card.
It might be a bit tight on space for you, though. I went small because this was going to be a MythTV box to replace my recently departed Tivo. Worked like a charm.
The graphics work quite good if you pair it with the latest GPU-enabled CPUs. I went with a i3 3225 and it does everything I ask of it. But I am not a gamer.
Building another (even small) from a Shuttle barebones as a secondary dev workstation. Same basic chips, but no real storage (I keep everything on servers anyway). The graphics will support the big screens I use. FWIW, I develop mostly in Linux and other unix flavors. Haven't touched Windows in years.
I checked NewEgg and Amazon and ended up going with Amazon. A little cheaper, but the clincher was Amazon Prime shipping - they got everything to me in one day for free. That's faster than me driving around looking for parts.
It had been so long since building anything that I had to dig around a lot, and ended up using a barebones Shuttle SH67H3 that might fit your needs. It'll take the i7 and 32GB of RAM, plus there is room for two 3.5" spindles and a larger 5.25 if you want DVD. It has room for that NVidia card.
It might be a bit tight on space for you, though. I went small because this was going to be a MythTV box to replace my recently departed Tivo. Worked like a charm.
The graphics work quite good if you pair it with the latest GPU-enabled CPUs. I went with a i3 3225 and it does everything I ask of it. But I am not a gamer.
Building another (even small) from a Shuttle barebones as a secondary dev workstation. Same basic chips, but no real storage (I keep everything on servers anyway). The graphics will support the big screens I use. FWIW, I develop mostly in Linux and other unix flavors. Haven't touched Windows in years.
I checked NewEgg and Amazon and ended up going with Amazon. A little cheaper, but the clincher was Amazon Prime shipping - they got everything to me in one day for free. That's faster than me driving around looking for parts.
@Sendarius: Try Intel for those SSDs. We have a lot of them in production and have found them to have lower failure rates than most other drives, spindled or not. Compared to other SSD, they are a little more expensive for lower capacity, but we RAID them and haven't had issues in the two years we have been using them. They get a lot of activity.
We plan to replace them starting next year. Heavy writes on an SSD will eventually wear them down a bit. So one of the things we are doing is proactively replacing them before problems creep up.
We have deployed both types of Intel SSDs (cannot remember the monikers) - the "regular" and the "enterprise" versions. Both have held up the same and the regular flavors are plenty good enough for what we do. At some point the extra IOPS are wasted waiting on netowrk latency (we do large-scale cloud databases). So you could shave some bucks by going with the non-enterprise versions. A longer warranty is useless for us because we're going to replace before it expires anyway. YMMV.
We plan to replace them starting next year. Heavy writes on an SSD will eventually wear them down a bit. So one of the things we are doing is proactively replacing them before problems creep up.
We have deployed both types of Intel SSDs (cannot remember the monikers) - the "regular" and the "enterprise" versions. Both have held up the same and the regular flavors are plenty good enough for what we do. At some point the extra IOPS are wasted waiting on netowrk latency (we do large-scale cloud databases). So you could shave some bucks by going with the non-enterprise versions. A longer warranty is useless for us because we're going to replace before it expires anyway. YMMV.
Kris
says:
For what its worth, I built this box about three months ago and it is running sweet for me. I needed something to handle Maya 3D design work and this configuration gave me no problems aside from a small learning curve on bare bones drives. I don't do raid, so I can't advise there. I think $800 is a bit tight also. Maybe you will need to skip a few days at the range so you can improve performance at work which should maximize your income and facilitate extra range time in the long run. Just a thought.
I got all of this from NewEgg:
* G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL10Q-32GBZL
* Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop * Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000 BX80623I72600K
* ZALMAN CNPS9500 AT 2 Ball CPU Cooling Fan/Heatsink
* Seagate SV35 Series ST1000VX000 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
* Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
* EVGA P67 SLI Micro 120-SB-E672-KR LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
* EVGA 02G-P3-1559-KR GeForce GTX 550 Ti (Fermi) 2GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
* Antec High Current Gamer Series HCG-900 900W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V v2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Certified 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
I got all of this from NewEgg:
* G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL10Q-32GBZL
* Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop * Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000 BX80623I72600K
* ZALMAN CNPS9500 AT 2 Ball CPU Cooling Fan/Heatsink
* Seagate SV35 Series ST1000VX000 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
* Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
* EVGA P67 SLI Micro 120-SB-E672-KR LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
* EVGA 02G-P3-1559-KR GeForce GTX 550 Ti (Fermi) 2GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
* Antec High Current Gamer Series HCG-900 900W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V v2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Certified 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
I'm a big fan of the tomshardware comparision reports. Here's the current CPU one: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106-5.html
Yes, they are looking at them from a gaming point of view. But its still a good reference for some of the relative strengths if you understand your processor load. I'm presuming compiling.
You didn't provide enough information really. RAID? 0? 1? 5? 6? (Professionally I work with systems involving TB sized DB & 256GB RAM systems running zones or RHEL VM. So I much prefer RAID 6 if data availability is important.
Are you compiling & testing on the same system? Are you running SLI for computation or video output?
CPU wise: I think that current i5 plus more ram is a better deal than spending more money on the i7. Since Abit went out of biz I've preferred Gigabyte (currently have 2 at home) and Asus. Power supply choices have gotten complicated, good names for other components have been going onto low quality PS. While you don't always get what you pay for, bargains usually aren't in the long run. Expect to spend >$150 for a good supply. More max watts != better supply. Also consider moving your RAID to an external box so that you can reduce heat and power needs inside of your PC. Also means that in an emergency you can grab the RAID box and run with it. If you leave the house, you can stick it in the gun safe.
Yes, they are looking at them from a gaming point of view. But its still a good reference for some of the relative strengths if you understand your processor load. I'm presuming compiling.
You didn't provide enough information really. RAID? 0? 1? 5? 6? (Professionally I work with systems involving TB sized DB & 256GB RAM systems running zones or RHEL VM. So I much prefer RAID 6 if data availability is important.
Are you compiling & testing on the same system? Are you running SLI for computation or video output?
CPU wise: I think that current i5 plus more ram is a better deal than spending more money on the i7. Since Abit went out of biz I've preferred Gigabyte (currently have 2 at home) and Asus. Power supply choices have gotten complicated, good names for other components have been going onto low quality PS. While you don't always get what you pay for, bargains usually aren't in the long run. Expect to spend >$150 for a good supply. More max watts != better supply. Also consider moving your RAID to an external box so that you can reduce heat and power needs inside of your PC. Also means that in an emergency you can grab the RAID box and run with it. If you leave the house, you can stick it in the gun safe.
Check http://frys.com/
Customer service is not great but they usually have good prices and GREAT sales.
Customer service is not great but they usually have good prices and GREAT sales.
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They can, but that's a bad idea. If you did it, you'd want to put them in like-speed volumes.
Why are you going to drop close to top dollar and skimp on the drives?
But yes, you *can* RAID them together. But then everything will be accessed at the slowest speed. (I guess this could depend on your card, but I haven't seen one that doesn't.)
I want an Intel based CPU (I have no love for AMD any more).
Oh, that's why you have to skimp on drives. :)