Right now, there’s every indication that SB234 will make it out of committee and so far it’s looking really good that the most comprehensive gun rights bill since Shall Issue passed in ‘86 will make its way to the Governor’s desk, which Governor Scott has already said he’d sign. Then, with that as law, Floridians will be able to carry more places as well as do so openly.
I totally plan on OC’ing more than the average gun owner. For one, I’m an activist. Two, I believe it to be a better deterrent to crime, a more comfortable way to carry, and provides more convenience should the horrible happen and I require its use. Cops openly carry their pistols for a reason, there’s nothing wrong with a citizen doing the same.
However, here’s the logical process for how I’ll choose when to OC and what I will carry.
One, if I have my family with me, I will generally conceal. My wife, even after all these years, is still not a gun nut and is barely comfortable as it is around them. I’ve gotten partial ambivalence out of her which is as good as I can expect. However, since OC will be rare and not something people are used to here, it is sure to draw a few stares and possibly conversations – some might not be pleasant. This isn’t something I want to subject my family to.
If I’m on my own, I’ll probably OC anywhere I would conceal which is to say, anywhere I’m at. I carry a weapon every place I am legally allowed to at all times (and tend to avoid situations where I can’t carry). Deciding what to carry isn’t difficult. I normally carry a Glock 20 or a KelTec P3AT if a full size pistol isn’t feasible. Because I do not have an IWB holster for the Para 1911, it only gets used for Open Carry events.
So, I’ll chose whatever fits me best that day which will generally be the Glock 20. Since concealment isn’t as critical, I expect the P3AT will start collecting a bit of dust. I may be looking at a S&W MP40 at some point, and if I do get it, I might carry that just for variety.
Then, I’ll simply go about my business exactly as I always have. If I need to go to the library, I will. If I need to pick something up at Home Depot, I’ll go there as well. If I need to pick something up from the grocery store, then I walk in there.
What I won’t do is select a firearm that I would never have for concealed carry like a shotgun or a rifle, nor will I make it a point to go places where I really have no business going to. My activism makes me an ambassador, so it behooves me to not alter my habits ‘just to prove a point’. I don’t find that to be an effective means of winning over people to my cause. If you have to modify both your choice of weapon and actively seek a place to go to that you weren’t planning on otherwise, then you’re not really doing much more than being an attention hound.
It’s a rare event when a stunt like that works for the better of everyone. I’m not saying it can’t work, for Pete’s sake I have to go fishing to OC, and I always am borrowing someone else’s fishing rod as I don’t have one myself. But the act of trying to legalize something tends to bind you to doing things you might not normally do. But when you spend more time modifying your behavior to ‘prove a point’, maybe that point isn’t quite what you’re trying to do.
*Rosa Parks sat at the front of the bus. She didn’t stand in the isle in a bright pink bikini bottom with nothing but pasties on the top that read “SUCK IT WHITE BOY! I AIN’T MOVIN’” while blocking access to the rest of the bus. There’s Martin Luther King, and then there’s Malcom X. One has a holiday and hundreds of streets that bear his name, the other is still spoken of in tones of scorn in polite company.
We can be those ambassadors. When you carry your gun, be it concealed or openly, be polite. Be courteous. Do not do things simply because you have a gun that you wouldn’t do without it. If you feel the need to show off, maybe there’s better things you could do with your time.
*I agree with JayG that we are not in the same situation as blacks were in during the civil rights movements. There are some parallels and there is bigotry abound, but we’re not getting hit with a fire hose or having effigies of Charlton Heston burning in our front yards. We should be cognizant of the limits of analogies and not over use them.
Incoming Fire
Comments
There are some places I still won't OC, such as to the gym - I'm not comfortable with everyone knowing there's a gun in a locker behind a $3 padlock - but it will mean that I can reduce the wear on my shoot-me-first vest and fanny pack when I go to the grocery store or Home Depot. The tool I'll use is the same tool I use now - a 1911 in a SERPA.
One thing I do anticipate is some degree of consternation on the part of some private property owners. There are some outfits - Costco comes to mind because of the Erik Scott case, as do the BB&T banks in some states - that have secret no gun policies no one knows about because with CCW they don't know you're armed, so they're quietly ignoring the issue. With OC they'll float to the top and get visibility, which is a good thing. I terminated my Costco membership the day I found out about their policy, and I steadfastly avoid businesses that deny me the right to protect myself, and I have no problem informing businesses - very politely, of course, that I will no longer patronize their establishment, and that as word spreads I suspect a great many gun owners will take their business elsewhere as well. But, it's your business and your property (or lease rights), and you're entitled to run it as you see fit. Goodbye and good luck. I also expect we'll start to see, over time, businesses welcoming gunnies. Costco is too big to be impacted substantially by gun owners avoiding them (although the pending Scott lawsuit has yet to run its course), but Billy Bob's Bar-B-Que and Sally's Pet Emporium are different stories. And, once Bob's, Sally's and everyone else's business becomes comfortable with gun owners, pressure will build on outfits like Costco; if one can carry, OC or CCW, in most places one goes, and Sam's and BJ's don't have problems with guns but Costco does, some percentage of Costco's business will shift away to the other two. That's the kind of long term subtle pressure that leads to positive change.
I think what will make the difference will be as businesses become aware of guns via OC they'll realize the man or woman with a 1911 or 686 on their hip is the same person who has been coming in for years, and probably has had that gun on each time. If Joe or Jane has been buying from me for years and they're a good and friendly customer when I didn't know they were armed, why would I expect them to be different now? It'll take time, but that's what the gun culture need to be cultivating, and I see OC as one tool to do that.
My 6" Anaconda or some other large handgun falls into that category.
Costco is on the same scale as McDonalds. A boycott of them by us in the early 90's got them to stop donating to HCI and change their position to neutral. Starbucks position on open carry is certainly influenced by what happened to Mac Shack. We don't even have to cripple their business, we just need to noticeably dent the margins; which a razor thin for a "low cost leader" like Costco.
On a more serious note - Robb, what sort of setup are you using for pantsless carry?
I still support the ban on OC of uncased long guns, however, although I'm pretty much indifferent to this issue too. I don't really mind too much if the long gun is slung behind the back, but if a guy were to come into (say) a restaurant carrying a shotgun in his hands, I'd be in Condition Orange pretty damn quickly. Not sure that this is the reaction the OC firebrands are after, but that's what they're gonna get.
We have a First Amendment to protect our freedom of speech too, but that doesn't give us the right to swear and curse loudly in front of anybody -- especially old people or kids. I know I get pretty angry when that happens to my family -- and I think the same filter of "manners" belongs to anyone who's OC.
Yes, having a right is good: just be careful how you exercise it.
OC is WAY back on the list of 2A priorities.
I'm extremely happy about SB234 and I will be even MORE happy once House Bill 45 is passed. House Bill 45 will make even the most anti-liberty po-po think twice before pulling his crap.
I have no problem telling friends I carry, if they ask, but as far as I know no one has 'made' me yet in public.
I'm all in favor of OC becoming normalized. For myself, I chose to be low key about carrying. Should a bad situation come upon me, I'd rather have the few seconds being innocuous might buy me.
Otherwise, I can see no reason to be walking around with a gun openly in my community. CC yes. Open, No. It's my personal preference. I am not prepared for that hassle.
I just quit the Opencarry.org forum because some of those folks there have lost all perspective and act like jr high school kids. Here in Kansas we have not had a problem with too radical open carry activists. They fought the good fight in Topeka and did it sanely. No jerk walked into a library with a shotgun.
"If CCW was tactically superior, then why do police officers not do it?"
Because they are a uniformed force, like the Army -- and being seen to be armed is part of the force projection.
For a non-uniformed "civilian" who is not in a war zone or clearly-identified area of unrest, it's almost always better not to identify yourself as a threat to someone who's intent on mayhem -- you're just carrying a sign which says "Shoot me first". This is especially true if you're alone in a crowd; obviously, if there are a group of people OC, then it has a deterrent effect, but outside that eventuality, CC is far better, to keep your status incognito.
That's why detectives don't OC, by the way: so they can blend into the population more easily.
Sheesh, Robb, I thought you knew better. Don't let your militancy affect your normally-sound judgement like that.
I have my CCW permit and Concealed carry is always tactically superior. Always. You know why too.
The word "deterrence" means nothing to you, does it?
Kim - I consider CCW the preferred method because, as you pointed out, it gives me options OC doesn't. Should I find myself in the 7-11 and a witness to armed robbery I intend to imitate the wallpaper just as hard as I can. I'm not a paid security agent for whatever businesses I patronize, nor do I intend to ever assume that role. Let the bad guy get the money and go out the door. Having a 1911 visible on my hip does not aid my position at all.
That said, here in Florida (and I'm sure in Texas as well) it gets hot 8 months of the year. Having the (legal) ability to just drape my shirt over the gun, and not have to add layers (RE: the shoot-me-first vest) is worthwhile. Currently, bending over to get something from a bottom shelf without the vest will cause the gun to print, which is a misdemeanor in Florida, and probably elsewhere as well. Eliminating that legal burden, via OC, is a major accomplishment.
I used to be in law enforcement and I can assure you that anyone in LE, and anyone embedded in the gun culture, who sees a fanny pack, shoot-me-first vest, or any other non-weather-appropriate clothing, automatically assumes "gun." Joe and Jane Everybody may not, but I know retail management has been trained to notice, and they've trained a lot of their employees.
A couple of months ago I was attacked by my neighbor's German Shepherd in my fenced yard; he had dug under the fence and when I went out into the yard he decided my yard was really his and I was an intruder. I had never had problems with the dog before, not having had contact with him. When I saw him I turned to go back inside to call Animal Control; he charged and took a chunk out of my right thigh before I had taken 6 steps.
Many police reports and lawyer phone calls ensued, but the gist is that I now assume if I see that dog - or, any medium to large dog - unrestrained and coming toward me I consider it a lethal threat. I no longer step outside the house unarmed, both for my protection and that of my family and guests.
Florida statutes allow me to be openly armed on my property, no permit required, so I can OC anyplace within my property boundaries. My mailbox, however, is in the public right-of-way, so to be legal I must CCW from the end of my driveway to the mailbox.
Bravo Sierra to that. As a citizen of Virginia the state constitution provided for OC, which I reluctantly used, pending statutory changes that provided for statewide shall-issue CCW. In rural Virginia OC never drew any attention; in urban areas, especially the liberal bastions around D.C. it did. Fortunately, the Virginia Constitution and state statutes were exactly the same whether one was in Essex County or the City of Alexandria. Occasionally one had to point that out to the guys with badges.
Do I think OC is the ultimate goal of gun owners? No, nor should it be. It should not be shunned, however, because in some circumstances it's reasonable. I do draw a distinction between a slung shotgun in a library and a K-Frame revolver on the hip in the grocery store that's either visible, or "printing."
Criminals have superior, ninja like disarmament skills that can take your gun away from you if you point it at them unless you surprise them by uncovering it first!
I don't know about "superior ninja skills" but I DO know that many police forces now insist on their uniformed officers carrying their handguns in specially-designed "snatch-proof" holsters which allow only the officer to be able to draw his sidearm. Clearly, this is considered sufficient risk to justify the (high) cost of this equipment.
And let's not forget: these are UNIFORMED officers who face this kind of threat. Think the danger is any less with a civilian like myself?
It's all very well to say: "Show me the data!" when trying to minimize or marginalize a perceived threat. Unfortunately, the threat seems to be real enough for many people (including cops and ordinarry CC folks like myself) to use protective holsters for their handguns, even if there is a paucity of data to support use of such equipment.
Like I said: I'm indifferent about OC, as a personal issue. The main reason I support OC is that it eliminates the bullshit charge of "displaying" when your covering shirt flaps open in the breeze. (This is a BIG deal in Texas: stats show that it's one of the most common reasons why law-abiding CH licensees are prosecuted by idiot cops.)
But as a tactical matter? I think OC is foolish, and I'm unlikely ever to do it (except in certain dire or ceremonial circumstances).
I'm also indifferent to the fears of GFWs about OC -- my rights do not depend on other people's sensitivities -- but as I said earlier, OC does carry certain responsibilities and dangers, and it's a fool who ignores them.
Look: we all KNOW that blood won't flow in the streets when OC is made legal (just as it didn't when CC became legal); we all KNOW that GFWs are a bunch of timorous fools for their silly prejudices.
And we all know that change is not easily effected by "in your face" tactics, without running the risk of serious backlash which may undermine the process. So let's be careful out there, and tone down the anger a couple of notches.
One day, this nation will be free just as the Founders intended. It'll just take a little more patience and a lot of hard work.
...which is why NO police office in the COUNTRY insists on retention holsters, right? Because there is no threat, right? Because NO police officer, EVER, ANYWHERE, has had a perp grab for his gun, right?
Or maybe the ay-lite OC activists have sooper-seeekret squirrel skills that will automatically prevent them from being disarmed, when all of those ignerrant cops all go through specialized training and wear special holsters to keep just that from happening (which we ALL know it never can)...right?
Gee, I wish they were all as smart as you, Robb.
Seriously, do you even read your owwn posts? "Ambassador", pfagh.
Your sentiments mirror mine. This is precisely how I will handle things once I have moved to NH...
A voice of sanity & reason for a change.
Good luck in the vote.