Sharp as a Marble - It’s like speaking a different language.

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It’s like speaking a different language.

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What I say - “I think we should scale back the government”
What they hear – “I want to abolish all government and let orphans and the elderly starve to death in the freezing cold”.

What I say – “I think we need to get rid of the NEA and let the states handle education”
What they hear – “I hate education and want to abolish schools”

What I say – “There is too much regulation that is killing business”
What they hear – “I want pure anarchy where we allow fat-cat CEOs to force migrant infants to work in coal mines for 16 hour days”

What I say – “Gun laws have no effect on the criminals and only ensnare those who are they type to follow laws anyway”
What they hear – “I have no concern about violence and don’t care how many people get shot so long as I can own a howitzer”

It’s almost not worth talking to people any more. Why bother telling people my beliefs when they’ll simply interpret it to mean what they want it to mean?

posted @ 1/20/2012 11:35:16 AM

Incoming Links

Sharp as a Marble - A post in which I attempt to remain ideologically consistent on 2/3/2012 10:03:34 AM

Comments

SPQR says:

on 1/20/2012 11:46:57 AM

This is because demonizing one's political opponents saves time actually listening to all those icky arguments about ideas.

Emotional hate is so much more efficient.

RobertM says:

on 1/20/2012 11:50:43 AM

Yep.

Joel says:

on 1/20/2012 12:08:18 PM

You were expecting maybe reasoned discourse? I think you need facts for that. Or at least coherent arguments. Having none of those things, the anti's are left with nothing but invective.

Homer says:

on 1/20/2012 12:22:10 PM

Karl Popper: "Always remember that it is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood: there will always be some who misunderstand you."

There are any number of people who deliberately misunderstand almost every statement, and persist in seeking to misunderstand statements and the world around them. They are not worth talking to, nor is there any value in attempting to engage them.

There's an old business proverb: "Do not try to teach a pig to dance; it wastes your time and annoys the pig."

Robb Allen says:

on 1/20/2012 12:25:45 PM

This isn't just anti-gunners or lefties. It's anyone who you argue with about something they feel passionate on.

I've made an effort to ensure I don't do this. If I hear someone extolling the virtues of a particular Gov't program, that I don't automatically label them as "All Gov't, All the Time".

Firehand says:

on 1/20/2012 12:30:16 PM

A lot of them I don't talk to about it anymore: they know The Truth About Me, and that's that.

Robb Allen says:

on 1/20/2012 12:33:01 PM

Homer, even worse is that our society actively encourages people to misinterpret things. Sexual harassment - doesn't matter what you said or meant, it's how the other person interprets it. Even if proven that you used the word 'penis' in a medically accurate and non-sexual context, the fact that some person was offended by it means it doesn't matter.

So, we're teaching everyone to do this; to apply their intent to your words and forgo any effort into trying to figure out what you actually meant. These are the wages of the "Politically Correct" sin.

DirtCrasher says:

on 1/20/2012 12:45:49 PM

They take willful misunderstanding to new heights, it's based on selective Identity Politics.

Canthros says:

on 1/20/2012 2:15:09 PM

And every time someone willfully misunderstands me about something, I get a little bit closer to letting them be right, just to spite them. But I'm kind of petty about such things.

Gun control being one such case. I didn't used to support the obliteration of restrictions on, e. g., machine guns. But, after the nth time somebody argued that I really wanted everyone to have free access to nuclear weapons", and where would that lead?!", I started to wonder, "Yeah, where would that lead? Sounds like it could be awesome!"

Pyrotek85 says:

on 1/20/2012 2:44:09 PM

@Robb
"Even if proven that you used the word 'penis' in a medically accurate and non-sexual context, the fact that some person was offended by it means it doesn't matter."

That's because they've somehow got it in their heads that they have a right to not be offended.

TinCan Assassin says:

on 1/20/2012 3:49:54 PM

You can own a howitzer? Damn, now I want one.

Everybody's Dad says:

on 1/20/2012 9:24:49 PM

While I am responsible for my meaning and my implications, how can you make me responsible for your inferences?

1911Man says:

on 1/20/2012 10:20:11 PM

You forgot my workplace favorite:

I say "I'm going to the range this afternoon to do some load development"
They convince themselves to hear "I really, reaaaallly hope I get to kill someone soon"

Craig says:

on 1/20/2012 10:38:27 PM

Daniel Greenfield wrote a pretty good analysis recently of this kind of mentality at the following site. Especially about 1/2 way down. Kinda sheds light on how we got to where we are.

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2012/01/so-you-want-revolution.html

A friend of mine expressed a sentiment about this very well; "It's to the point where you can't change their minds, all you can do is defeat them."

I don't even bother discussing my viewpoints with the hard core clowns anymore. My breath is better expended in planting seeds in the minds of those who haven't really given the subject much thought.
(although I have to admit to indulging in the thrill of 'stirring the pot' on occasion with the anti-rights cultists just to see their pointy little heads spin....)

Matt says:

on 1/21/2012 12:45:11 AM

Emotional hate is so much more efficient.

1) "Having none of those things, the anti's are left with nothing but invective. "
2)"They take willful misunderstanding to new heights, it's based on selective Identity Politics. "
3)"That's because they've somehow got it in their heads that they have a right to not be offended. "
4)"the anti-rights cultists just to see their pointy little heads spin....)"

My irony meter is just about maxed out for the night.

If someone is passionate, there comes a point where you realize that you won't change their mind. Being respectful towards them is not a sign of weakness.

Bubblehead Les says:

on 1/21/2012 11:47:50 AM

If the Brady Bunch were not just a branch of the Progressive Political Stream, we could treat them as Relevant as the Women's Christian Temperance Union. Unfortunately, they are a Useful Tool for those who want to "Fundamentally Transform the United States."

But talking with them is useless. They are as Closed-Minded as any other Cult Member. But if we have to argue with them, I'd prefer that it happens in the Legislative Branches of Government, and the Judicial Branches of Government, with people like the Alan's of the SAF doing the arguing.

Robb Allen says:

on 1/21/2012 11:55:29 AM

What I say "It's difficult to get people to understand what I'm saying"
What people hear - "The Anti-gunners sure are dumb!

This isn't about the anti's. It's not about the left, the right, the Christians, the atheists, blacks, whites, or that guy who used to be on Family Ties. It's about people who pull from your words what they want to hear instead of listening to what you're saying.

Tam says:

on 1/21/2012 3:14:45 PM

I feel your pain.

Braden Lynch says:

on 1/22/2012 2:34:36 AM

Matt says that we should in general, be respectful and listen to opposing views. In regards to anti-gun advocates, I can agree with this, but only to a point.

Why? Well, the stakes are HUGE.

I do not want the government to suddenly take away my right to keep and bear arms because a brand new progressive Supreme Court Justice just cannot read the plain language of the Bill of Rights.

Then, I may become a disarmed victim of criminals or of a government that might see me as a threat (because I refuse to register/surrender my firearms).

So, I treat the anti-gun advocates with scorn because their incremental and long term goals definitely endanger me. I do evaluate their arguments and have found nothing compelling within them.

Examples of gun control gone bad: Former Great Britain, Australia, Nazi Germany, Turkey, all of the communist countries (e.g. USSR, China, North Korea).

"Never Again!"
"Molon Labe!"

mariner says:

on 1/22/2012 9:26:59 PM

I wonder what they would hear if I SAID, “I want to abolish all government and let orphans and the elderly starve to death in the freezing cold”?

Homer says:

on 1/23/2012 7:58:04 AM

@ Robb at 12:33:
Robb, you're referring to two different things. First, the left has so corrupted the language in an attempt to redirect culture some words and phrases no longer mean what they once did. Average individuals, steeped in what Orwell correctly labeled "Newspeak" and marinated in the government education industry's decades-long effort to eradicate the capacity to think, do not have the ability to discern qualities of ideas or the specific language used to convey those ideas. I've seen several studies indicating that the working vocabulary of Americans has shrunk drastically. As example, consider the kerfuffle a few years back when someone on the city council of the predominately black District of Columbia caused a furor by using the word "niggardly" during a fiscal discussion.

Second, there appears to be an increasing number of people who are fixated on their internal belief structure and filter everything through that structure. This allows them to deliberately misunderstand anything said because it all must relate somehow to that internal belief structure which frequently is disconnected from physical reality.

I'm afraid there's a large segment of Americans who are cognitively debilitated, and there's little to be done for them to rectify the condition, at least within the context of simple interaction. As Newton said about objects and outside forces, until they are confronted by an outside force of sufficient strength to force a change, they'll remain in their comfortable mental stasis. (One example of a sufficiently strong outside force is the stereotype of a liberal getting mugged and becoming a gun owner.)

In the meantime, I'd suggest avoiding pig dancing classes and concentrate on dealing with people who don't waste your time, or at least minimizing time spent with the cognitively debilitated.

Robert Slaughter says:

on 1/23/2012 6:02:56 PM

Nothing really new. Nearly everyone hears-by-expectation, some are better at catching it and actually listening than others. Most folks didn't hear anything you said, but instead heard what their "inner narration" said about it.

Human language. The most awkward, inefficient, lame-assed way to communicate with other human beings. Except for the fact that there is no other way.

Braden Lynch says:

on 1/24/2012 2:25:57 PM

Homer has some brilliant observations. I like to point out that the progressives use the term "Nazi" for anyone that they disagree with when it should be noted it was the National German SOCIALIST Party. While it left the ownership of companies in private hands it basically controlled their activities (de facto communism). It was a highly repressive system and as we all know about the Holocaust, it was racist, genocidal and evil.

Conservatives are the antithesis of the Nazis and dislike the goals of the left or progressives. The conservatives seek to preserve traditions and institutions, not gut them and transform them in Karl Marx's socialist utopia (unobtainable).

So, when they throw out Nazi insults, it is a case of projection on their part.

bob r says:

on 1/25/2012 12:35:37 PM

As the now CEO of Ford, Alan Mulally, once said:
"The curious thing about communication is the illusion that it occurred."

Communication is a difficult thing even when people are in agreement as to the philosophy and the goals, never mind when there are basic philosophical disagreements or if one of the participants is just plain stupid. And remember: stupid is forever.

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