Sharp as a Marble - An open letter to tile manufactures

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Dear Tile Manufacturers,

I hope you die in a fire.

Sincerely,

R

I mean, seriously. I can buy an 18x18 piece of tile for $2.50 but the same stuff in a 6x3” bullnose costs $4.95? WTF? It wouldn’t be that bad if I didn’t need 53’ of the shit, but JUST the threshold to my shower will cost more to tile than the interior, and that’s bullshit.

posted @ 1/16/2012 10:04:42 AM

Comments

Anon says:

on 1/16/2012 11:00:27 AM

Really? No chance that the price fairly represents their costs? That the bullnose might require a unique piece of capital equipment, that gets lower usage? That it might require a whole separate curing means? That extra manual steps might be involved in glazing? That the breakage rate, both on the line and in transit, might be higher?

No, it must just be a scheme.

emdfl says:

on 1/16/2012 11:03:43 AM

Ran into the same thing when I did my two bathrooms. I bought cases of wall tile for $0.26/piece(6"X6"). The cove tile for the ceiling(4"X6")was $5.88 for two pieces. and I needed 30 feet in one room and 42 feet in the other.

Ry Jones says:

on 1/16/2012 11:09:52 AM

The first comment hits it on the head - it's much easier to make tile (flatten clay, cut, fire, glaze, fire) than bullnosed tile; also, the volume of the former versus the latter helps keep the price differential up.

It's also harder to work with shaped tiles (harder to cut, etc).

Robb Allen says:

on 1/16/2012 11:10:10 AM

Anon, possibly, but unlikely considering the square 6" tiles also have a bevel around the edges (albeit not as round) and those are 88 cents each.

And yes, I realize there might be costs associated with putting a slight rounding on one edge that involves extra work. Not that much though. Instead, I look at it from a market perspective. I can't put the bevel on there, and I *need* the tile to make my project look better. Supply & demand mean they can ask for more than it truly is worth because I have no other options.

Hence the die in the fire comment.

You're awfully sensitive to this though, curious to know why.

Anon says:

on 1/16/2012 11:22:58 AM

No connection to the tile industry at all, or to construction, or anything related (medical device design is more my turf) -- but I'm so tired of the demonization of business.

It's bad enough when it's latte-sipping OWS hipsters who can't be bothered to think through a production process (and probably haven't ever seen one end-to-end); it's worse when it's otherwise rational sensible folks who have previously demonstrated actual cognition.

(The flat tiles can still be stamped out, even with the edge radius; the remaining processes are probably all belt-fed; don't miss the volume differences -- probably ten or twenty to one, at a SWAG?)

Robb Allen says:

on 1/16/2012 11:36:46 AM

Anon, I don't demonize business in general. But I also don't elevate businesses to some sort of mythical, moral pedestal. Businesses are staffed by humans looking at obtaining the most amount of reward for the least amount of effort. Hell, that's how I run my life.

Don't take a gripe about the price of something as an attempt to repudiate the free market.

Besides, I admit that I personally cannot form tile, nor can I take existing tile and cut a beveled edge, so if I want it, I have to pay what the market charges and I can't find ANY tile that is currently in production that has bullnose that's not the same rate, so... I pay what it's 'worth' according to the market.

Doesn't mean I can't bitch about it.

Robb Allen says:

on 1/16/2012 11:38:10 AM

Oh, and this is travertine, so the squares have edges that are beveled by cutting, not pressing. So the points you brought up about construction don't seem to be the same. Could be wrong though. The day *is* early.

Anon says:

on 1/16/2012 11:51:40 AM

(Puts manufacturing engineer hat back on.)

the travertine is almost certainly a cutting process, but that comes with its own hassles: the bull nose component is probably deeper and therefore requires more careful selection of raw material and a considerably greater waste percentage as a byproduct.

Back to free-market philosophy: I'm sure, in fact I hope, that the tile maker is practicing a very sophisticated pricing strategy known as "every penny the market will bear". However, unless they are the only tile manufacturer in the marketplace, they are competitively constrained in their pricing, which tends to drive prices back to being cost driven.

You're right that once you begin using their square product, you're pretty much required to buy their bull nose product. However, at some point you had the opportunity to choose whose tile product overall, thus bringing price competition back into the equation.

Robb Allen says:

on 1/16/2012 12:03:20 PM

Sadly, I had to use the bullnose tile as the key decision making process. Because I needed so much of it (all to frame a doorway), I had to choose tile that was inexpensive enough to offset the costs.

In this case, the increase of cost of bullnose meant I decided to go with cheaper tile.

Now, going off on a tangent, businesses also thrive on misunderstandings and slight of hand. To assume the market will always punish bad players is false.

For example, when we redid our kitchen, the vast majority of the counter top sellers charged for edging based on square footage. Want a bull nose on just 4' of edge? Too bad, we charge based on the square footage of the piece you bought. I asked and was told that if I didn't like it, try to find someone else who'd charge me less (I did, but it took time).

Sometimes, when 'everyone else' is doing it, it's easier to just do the same and not worry about the smart ones who figure it out and take their business elsewhere. You get enough people just assuming that's the price and go with it.

Xman says:

on 1/16/2012 12:23:34 PM

Bullnosed travertine, you say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHEdlOhRRLQ

A different anon says:

on 1/16/2012 5:13:35 PM

They actually profiled a tile maker on "how it's made". IIRC square tile process was fully automated, whereas the bullnose required considerable hand-work / handling. Just checked: The segment is avail on YouTube.

DJ says:

on 1/16/2012 10:25:02 PM

Try outfitting a closet with plastic-coated wire shelving (Closet Maid, or the like). The shelving is cheap; around a dollar per running foot. The brackets that hold it up might as well be gold-plated.

Go to Lowes and buy chain link fencing material. The roll of fencing is relatively cheap, but the posts and brackets are not. I needed posts and brackets, but not fencing. I found them at a fence supply company for half the price charged by Lowes.

I talked about that with the people at the fence supply outfit. They said people often complained about the cost of their rolls of fencing. Their response was always, "We'll charge you what Lowes charges for the fencing, provided we also charge you what Lowes charges for the posts and brackets." The offer is always declined.

mikee says:

on 1/17/2012 2:26:39 PM

There are cheaper ways to tile than using bullnose tile. Of course, they end up with a raw corner of the tile showing. Your choice.

Having hired tilers by the double handful, and done dozens of tiling jobs on house rehabs, I can say this: There are tile available for all levels of wealth.

DOuglas2 says:

on 1/18/2012 1:17:45 PM

My spouse shops for the tile, I just have to make it work. The big box stores and discounters that have the nice displays that she likes don't even stock much bullnose, so the choices for me are a contrasting tile for the bullnose edges, no bullnose, or tile edge trim.
Color-matched or metal tile edge trim seemed to be the standard way of doing it in the last country where I renovated, and I had to look a bit harder but eventually found it in the USA.
Anyway, like the fence posts and wire shelving, most DIY-ers are going to comparison shop on the field tile prices. Hence they are more competitively priced.

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