Sharp as a Marble - Beyond buttery smooth

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Beyond buttery smooth

You need this

My Apex Forward Set Sear & Trigger kit showed up yesterday in the mail. Through the magic known as ‘rote memory’ I was able to uninstall the ~~suck~~ stock trigger and get the FSS put in. I have lots of pictures and will be doing a step by step write up for the betterment of all the Interweb tubes later on this.

Once installed, I was in gun-nerdvana. My GOD, it’s as close to a SA trigger as you could ever expect from a striker fired pistol. And, just as I remembered, it’s difficult to determine where the sear will actually trip. The entire trigger doesn’t move more than 1/6” from front to back, possibly less (I’m guesstimating by memory here).

I cannot WAIT to hit the range with this thing. More later.

posted @ 1/12/2012 10:38:32 AM

Incoming Links

SayUncle » M&P Forward Set Sear and Trigger Kit on 1/13/2012 9:27:38 AM

SayUncle » Trigger Happy on 1/16/2012 10:42:17 AM

Comments

Xman says:

on 1/12/2012 11:00:13 AM

Thoughts on this trigger setup on a carry gun?

Jeff says:

on 1/12/2012 11:19:15 AM

I only tried one once, but I wouldn't put it on a carry gun without a thumb safety. It would be a lot like carrying a 1911 with the safety off. I'd be worried about catching the trigger on something when holstering and such.

Robb Allen says:

on 1/12/2012 11:24:45 AM

Jeff, not trying to be rude, but that's very illogical.

If this is OK for competition, where you'll be drawing and reholstering on a constant basis, why would it make it less safe for SD where there should be a LOT less of the fiddling going on?

Jeff says:

on 1/12/2012 11:39:05 AM

Fair point. My initial comment was mostly reflexive based on what I've been taught. Thinking about it further, I'd say the primary difference is holster type. There's a big difference between an open carried kydex OWB or race holster and a concealed IWB as far as snag potential.

The other big difference from competition is in a match you never draw and decide not to shoot. There's a reasonable likelyhood of that happening in a defensive situation.

Like everything, it's a decision you have to make for yourself. My carry M&P has a 5ish lb trigger job, which I got before Apex made M&P stuff. If I were setting up a carry gun now, I'd use the Apex DCAEK.

Some good discussion here: http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?438-How-light-is-quot-too-light-quot-for-a-carry-gun-trigger

Xman says:

on 1/12/2012 12:03:41 PM

Personal preference doesn't necessarily have to be illogical. Being that it's a multi-variable equation, everyone has a different solution on what it takes to give Murphy the stiffarm while maintaining an effective defense.

Robb Allen says:

on 1/12/2012 12:11:45 PM

One, so everyone is clear - the trigger still has a ~4.5# pull to it. The stroke is simply shortened and moved forward.

This isn't a hair trigger by any stretch of the imagination.

Jeff says:

on 1/12/2012 12:22:58 PM

Ah, I wrongly assumed you set it up with the competition springs. From Apex' blog:
Factory TRS and sear spring- 3.0 lbs
Competition spring kit- 2 lbs (or less)
Springs included in kit- 4.0-4.25 lbs

Xman says:

on 1/12/2012 1:38:14 PM

4.5#, short,and buttery smooth? Meh.

I guess that's ok if you're not man enough for a 16# pull with 13" of overtravel and the feel of lava rocks in a blender.

Bubblehead Les says:

on 1/13/2012 8:42:24 AM

Told you you'd love it!

Robb Allen says:

on 1/13/2012 8:51:25 AM

Love isn't exactly the word. Love isn't messy. The emotions I feel for this trigger involve messy.

Tam says:

on 1/13/2012 10:15:36 AM

Fine, I'm illogical then.

I wouldn't CCW it. Unlike, say, a Glock, the striker on an M&P is fully cocked. Carrying one with an FSS is exactly like carrying a Series 80 1911 with the thumb safety off and the grip safety pinned.

Jai says:

on 1/13/2012 12:33:08 PM

Tam, the striker on the M&P is not "fully cocked". The travel of the sear causes it to be set back very similarly to the GLOCK's "safe action". For all intents and purposes, the action of the M&P and the GLOCK is the same.

Alan says:

on 1/13/2012 1:14:56 PM

So carrying a series 80 with the thumb safety off and the grip safety pinned is exactly like carrying a XD?

Which I've done for years...

Panamared says:

on 1/13/2012 3:53:54 PM

I guess I don't understand the question. It doesn't matter what I think of your trigger, other than the possibility that I might want to duplicate it on my Glock btw I carry a 3.5# ghost rocket on my 36. The real question is do you feel comfortable with carrying the gun in question.

Tam says:

on 1/13/2012 9:12:47 PM

Jai,

"Tam, the striker on the M&P is not "fully cocked". The travel of the sear causes it to be set back very similarly to the GLOCK's "safe action"."

Wrong.

The M&P striker, at rest, has enough energy to bust a cap. The motion of the trigger just bumps it back off the sear, unlike the Glock.

Don't get me wrong, I loves me some M&P. I carry one. There's one on my hip in a Raven IWB with a Winchester RA9TA in the chamber as I type this. But I don't let that blind me to the nature of the beast.

Tam says:

on 1/13/2012 9:21:00 PM

Alan,

"So carrying a series 80 with the thumb safety off and the grip safety pinned is exactly like carrying a XD?

Which I've done for years..."

1) Pinned your XD's grip safety, then, have you?

2) People have ridden motorcycles without helmets in city traffic for years, too, without ill effect. That doesn't make it fucking smart.

Alan says:

on 1/16/2012 9:47:14 AM

Grip safeties are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Matthew Carberry says:

on 1/16/2012 1:11:01 PM

Alan,

Wha?

Grip safeties are a solution to the problem of triggers being pulled while the gun is not positively controlled in a firing grip.

That's a real (potential at least) problem, as hundreds of ND's demonstrate. (yeah yeah, I know, "This is my safety Sgt. Maj.")

It's the same problem the "trigger in trigger" safeties were designed to solve, though I believe the grip safety does it a bit better since you have to depress two different levers in different places at once for the gun to go off as opposed to simply needing something finger-sized or smaller to intrude into the trigger guard.

Terry says:

on 1/16/2012 11:37:03 PM

Robb, you wrote:"If this is OK for competition, where you'll be drawing and reholstering on a constant basis, why would it make it less safe for SD where there should be a LOT less of the fiddling going on?"
That's a good point that forced me to think through my discomfort further.
Some 15 years ago, while learning some basic room clearing skills and using a Novak tuned 1911, I almost shot a 'no shoot' target (targets were clothed and had objects such as cameras, guns and badges attached); my finger was almost through the trigger pull (very little take up but just enough for a 1911 'street trigger') and when my brain processed the visual info, my finger flew outside the trigger guard. I was really happy for the amount of take up my trigger had.
Less than a minute later, I saw a target with a gun and by the time I realized I was also seeing a badge, I had already fired.
There are a whole host of reasons for my mistake but I also realized that having a bit more take up in my trigger was helpful. It's nowhere near a guarantee that I will avoid mistakes, but it helps a bit.
Nowadays I carry a Glock and am comfortable with the amount of take up (neither too much nor too little). Since I haven't shot your M&P, I have no idea whether I would be ok with it or not but what you describe would make me hesitate to have it on a carry gun until I tried it out.
But that's just me.

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