Sharp as a Marble - Never go full retard

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Never go full retard

I Fear My Government , Views , Wookie Suits

Or 20 cops will taser, pepper-spray, zip-tie, and beat you

Dayton police "mistook" a mentally handicapped teen-ager's speech impediment for "disrespect," so they Tasered, pepper-sprayed and beat him and called for backup from "upward of 20 police officers" after the boy rode his bicycle home to ask his mother for help, the boy's mom says.

I’m getting sick and tired of all these stories like this. I’ve gone from wanting to be a cop to developing an involuntary distrust of officers in only a few short years. From what I can see, police are losing sight of who they are and where they get their authority from (hint, Officer Friendly, it’s not the shiny badge). I still believe the majority of cops are good people, but the good ones can’t just sit back and continue to let this happen. I know there’s a strong urge to protect your brothers and sisters, but I’d help the police with the manhunt were my brother to beat up a mentally challenged individual.

Then you have this shit

On the way, the mom says, "A neighbor attempted to communicate with Officer Hooper about Jesse's disabilities and was told to go back into his home, or he would be arrested."

How about “Go perform anatomically impossible feats with your nightstick” instead? Cops have no right to demand anyone return to their home like this. Police authority is limited, it is not absolute, but from the way you hear this all the time, one suspects many cops are unaware of this fact.

I’m also getting a bit tired of the “resisting arrest” shtick after you’ve been Tasered and doused with OC. Damn straight you’re going to flail around when you’re nerves and eyeballs are cooking from the inside out. That’s not resisting arrest, that’s your body on autopilot.

And honestly, if you had 20 officers readily available (from multiple districts!) for “beating the snot out of some ‘tard'” then I’m thinking you have too many ~~jackboots~~ police officers on staff.

As is a sad fact of life, I have to put here my disclaimer that I am not anti-cop. I’m anti-thug-with-a-badge-You-Will-Respect-My-Authoritah.

Totally forgot this – Hat tip to Alan of Snarky Bytes

posted @ 6/30/2011 12:47:01 PM

Incoming Links

SayUncle » “disrespect” on 7/1/2011 9:18:57 AM

Quote of the Day – 2011-07-01 « Curses! Foiled Again! on 7/1/2011 10:35:07 AM

Comments

Weer'd Beard says:

on 6/30/2011 12:51:59 PM

Even if this gentleman was simply a total wiseass disrespectful asshole, it still doesn't justify the response.

Given that this guy had a disability this should be a keel-hauling offense.

armed partisan says:

on 6/30/2011 12:57:53 PM

Each and everyone of these cops should be shitcanned, post haste. There's not justification for such a response other than a "me too" reaction. Cops who have an "Us Vs. Them" mentality are the enemies of the American people, and should be weeded out of America's police forces before they get good cops killed.

Jake says:

on 6/30/2011 1:37:40 PM

I’ve gone from wanting to be a cop to developing an involuntary distrust of officers in only a few short years.

Sadly, so have I - and I work with officers on a regular basis. The way things are now, and with only a few exceptions, unless I'm encountering them in my capacity as an EMS provider I'm automatically suspicious. Even the ones I know well enough to be friendly with outside those parameters raise a base level of suspicion in the back of my mind, because I always have a nagging worry about hitting their "authority" button by accident.

And these are the people I trust to watch my back in "iffy" situations (and I do trust them for that).

I don't want to, but then I see crap like this - and I occasionally see hints of the "Us vs. Them" mentality from some of our cops, which makes it even worse.

As I said over at Alan's, "Had I been that family friend, I would probably be either dead or in jail right now."

MadRocketScientist says:

on 6/30/2011 1:45:23 PM

Same here. As long as over-reactions by police are ignored by police leadership (both direct & political), this will only continue.

Joel says:

on 6/30/2011 1:45:25 PM

This incident kinda undermines the "few bad apples" defense, doncha think? It appears the bad apples were 22 for 22 in this case.

PT says:

on 6/30/2011 1:49:20 PM

I've gone from believing the "only a few bad apples in the bunch" to "only a few good apples in the bunch"

Youtube has definitely impacted a lot of people's opinions now that the citizens have proof of wrongdoing.

I think there needs to be serious reform that includes a shoulder/hat/lapel mounted camera and microphone whenever a cop is on duty that can't be accessed by that officer.

Crucis says:

on 6/30/2011 2:00:32 PM

The son of a friend joined out local PD a few months ago. Previously he had been a PD dispatcher and paid his own way through our regional Police Academy. After graduating, his attitude has totally changed. I saw him in his cruiser a few weeks ago at a stoplight. I pulled up next to him, rolled down my window, waved and said "Hi!" He looked at me, asked if I wanted something. "Just being friendly," I replied. He rolled up his window without another word.

According to his father, they teach all cops to be distant, impersonal and wary of everyone whether on duty or off. It's the Us vs. Them attitude.

Officer Friendly was a victim of Blue-on-blue fire and has been dead for a long time.

Jake says:

on 6/30/2011 2:07:42 PM

Joel: My theory(but only a theory at this point) is that the "bad apples" congregate at the departmental level. That is, any department that tolerates one bad apple will eventually be filled with them, because good cops won't tolerate bad cops, and if they can't get rid of the bad cops (for whatever reason) the good ones will leave. At the same time, once the bad cops get any kind of power in the department, they will try to get rid of the good ones because they don't want the interference.

The only real question is how a good department goes bad - which usually (though not always) seems to involve politicians and going bad from the top down. Sadly, the rot seems to have infiltrated the training programs in many places, too.

James says:

on 6/30/2011 2:22:11 PM

While this case is certainly egregious, and I am not defending these officers, don't turn this into an indictment of police officers everywhere.

I'm a Deputy District Attorney for a rural jurisdiction, and I'm currently prosecuting a case where a guy was stopped by one of our sheriffs, and refused to comply with any of the deputy's instructions. The deputy opened up the car door to remove the defendant from the car, and he immediately dove for the center console. The officer struggled with him for a minute, ordering the defendant to stop going for the console, graduating to punching him in the face, and ultimately giving him a little "face time" with his 4 D cell maglight.

That deputy did not know what the defendant was going for in the center console of the truck, all he knew was that there was a person disobeying his order, and he was going for something. I'm sure no one has heard about this case for two reasons: 1) He wasn't going for his insurance/ID/registration, because then everyone would be bitching about how this officer is beating innocent civilians on the streets; and 2) the officer stopped him from pulling out the condition 2 Beretta 92F in the console.

Police officers get killed every year, and they have every right to come home to their families. Sometimes they get rough with a suspect and its the wrong decision, sometimes they do it and it's the right decision.

Ken says:

on 6/30/2011 2:26:25 PM

You know, I'm a nice, law-abiding, civic minded guy. If I saw this going on, and I hate to say this, but I'd be seriously considering double tapping those cops in the back of the head to save that kid.

Think about it: violent assault, disparity of force, in fear for life, armed attackers. All the things we need to be able to articulate as people who carry.

Then I read that 20 more cops show up and the situation doesn't change? How are they different from the people we carry to protect ourselves from, exactly?

Robb Allen says:

on 6/30/2011 2:39:13 PM

James, as I've said, it's not an indictment of all officers in the same way that a few CCW holders will invariably get drunk and shoot someone over a parking space. Given a group of any size, there's bound to be someone who's going to hose things up.

However... Look at the number of stories that have been pouring out lately of police abuses. Arresting people for video taping from their front porch, concrete lunches and dirt naps for people legally openly carrying, destroying cameras, etc. Honestly, if I were to hear the same number of stories regarding gun owners doing these kinds of things, I'd rethink my position on gun control.

The Us Vs. Them mentality has got to go, because sooner than later, cops are going to be viewed as "them" from the rest of society. And when that trust level is completely gone, you're not going to be in that hand basket for long.

ATLien says:

on 6/30/2011 3:24:31 PM

I'd watch that tone, James, cause DAs aren't the most civic-minded people these days, either.

mike w. says:

on 6/30/2011 3:50:22 PM

"I’m also getting a bit tired of the “resisting arrest” shtick after you’ve been Tasered and doused with OC. Damn straight you’re going to flail around when you’re nerves and eyeballs are cooking from the inside out."

This is even more true when you're mentally handicapped and simply don't understand what's happening to you or why.

This asshole basically chased someone down, tased him inside his own home, then beat the shit out of him for the "Crime" of not stopping and talking to him.

If I pass a random cop on the street I am under NO obligation to talk to him, stop, or even acknowledge his presence. Far too many cops have forgotten this.

Fred says:

on 6/30/2011 3:57:18 PM

Having worked in a critical non-sworn capacity for a law enforcement agency for a number of years (I changed jobs several years ago) and with several good acquaintances who are still LEOs, I have to side with Robb on this.

I don't trust any of them. Any of them. At any time.

Police work is extremely incestuous: cops associate primarily with cops, on duty and off; they live in an "us versus them" environment which gets stronger with each year on the job; for a lot of them, the personal focus becomes inward to support each other, rather than outward to become involved in the community and non-cop socializing.

Not only does police work tend to attract similar personality types, once several years are accumulated in police service it is difficult, if not economically impossible, to discard that lifestyle and go to something completely different.

Police agency management comes from the ranks over decades, so the chief, the sheriff, the chief deputy, etc. has been steeped in that environment for 15-25 years before he or she gets into the uppermost levels of agency management. Their attitude is "if you haven't been a cop for 20 years you couldn't possibly understand what it is that we do," which breeds more insularity between the badge and the public. They think they're special, and frequently command sufficient power at the budgetary level to coerce city/county non-LEO management to keep funding them, at increasing funding levels, because it's "either heavily fund the cops or descend into lawlessness."

I don't have the perfect answer, except perhaps for a balanced review capacity (and finding "balanced" in that particular case will be damn difficult) completely outside the police agency to immediately, and with great prejudice, terminate and punish egregious violations of the public trust. The real tough challenge will be to purge politics from the process and base it totally on officer performance and behavior.

At some point cops need to be reminded that they are not an authority unto themselves, but serve at the pleasure and convenience of the public whom they are sworn to serve.

Otherwise, we'll be at the point Jake mentions above - the bad will force out the good, and when the public's tipping point is reached, the result will not be at all pretty, nor beneficial to either party.

Joe in PNG says:

on 6/30/2011 4:07:14 PM

The really sad thing is that this is the sort of crap you see every day in the third world.

Laughingdog says:

on 6/30/2011 5:29:30 PM

If anyone assaulted a family member of mine like that within eye sight of me, they'd be dead. Uniform or not, once they cross the line these officers did, they're just like rabid dogs in my eyes at that point.

"I don't trust any of them. Any of them. At any time."

This. I believe most cops WERE good at some point. I believe even the best are guilty of letting the bad ones slide, which is nearly as bad.

Borepatch says:

on 6/30/2011 7:32:14 PM

Hel-LO Civil Rights Violation lawsuit. Maybe eight figures.

When the city of Dayton goes bankrupt, maybe the kid can take the whole damn city as payment.

Ov course, in a just world, the cops would have gone down in the hail of gunfire from the neighbors.

mariner says:

on 6/30/2011 8:08:13 PM

Put a cork in it, James.

Ordinary people are getting tired of this kind of shit, and if it keeps up ordinary people will resort to self-help.

"No Justice, No Peace" ya' know.

Rob says:

on 6/30/2011 8:40:26 PM

Police officers get killed every year, and they have every right to come home to their families. Sometimes they get rough with a suspect and its the wrong decision, sometimes they do it and it's the right decision.

Oh cry my a fucking river. There are dozens of professions that are more dangerous than police work, and I don't see any of them getting to shoot first and ask questions later in the name of "safety."

Police officers knew the dangers when they took the job. If they aren't prepared to die in the line of duty in the defense of the innocent, they should find another fucking job.

Peter says:

on 6/30/2011 9:54:01 PM

You know, several years ago when these sorts of stories started becoming more visible, I suggested that it was time to start shooting the bastards, if for no other reason than to make the police think before assaulting a citizen.

For my trouble I was vilified IIRC here, at Uncle's and most egregiously over at Caleb's.

For the record, my ability to predict tomorrow's dinner (much less anything else) is non-existent, and if I could see this coming I have to wonder just what the h*ll you all were thinking.

Recall George Washington's warning about government and accept the fact that the only sure way to stop these sorts of abuses is to take enough of their lives to give them pause.

And for the inevitable 'cop hater' responses: bite me.

deadcenter says:

on 7/1/2011 3:25:52 AM

Sometimes they get rough with a suspect and its the wrong decision

And when it is the wrong decision, the cops need to stand up and take their just punishment. The problem James, is that all too often they hide behind the badge, the 'thin blue line', the code of silence (aka conspiracy), or behind complicit DAs that won't prosecute cops for whatever ridiculous reason they have for not wanting to prosecute those who have broken the law.

If an ordinary citizen had been assaulting a mentally challenged individual, DAs like you would be lining up to kick them in nuts hard enough to give them 3 adam's apples and hold a press conference announcing how you'd made the streets safer; since it's a cop, you're willing to give them a pass and our society slides a little farther towards destruction.

You need to remember that a cop is a citizen first and foremost, they have no special rights before the law and due to their ability to dispense lethal force need instead to be held to a higher standard.

Just like DAs that abuse the power bestowed on them hiding behind their court granted immunity. Based on the news stories out there about bad cops and bad prosecutors, what happened to Niphong should be a LOT more common.

My opinion, you want to see a reduction in bad behavior from police and prosecutors, require them to put some skin in the game. Make the beat cop responsible for the first 5 grand of any civil judgement he's part of, sargeants 10 grand, LTs 25K, Captains and Prosecutors 50K.

mike says:

on 7/1/2011 8:24:04 AM

Sad that this happened. Didn't know that you could be tasered in America for being disrespectful.
I have a daughter with a disability. While I'm troubled that you think it's okay to use the word tard I'm hoping you have your heart in the right place.

McThag says:

on 7/1/2011 9:04:34 AM

"I still believe the majority of cops are good people, but the good ones can’t just sit back and continue to let this happen."

Once you decide to sit back and let this happen, you've stopped being a good cop.

Because I never hear about any cop standing up to his "brother" officers about this sort of thing, they all get lumped into "bad cop".

Being a cop is dangerous? Well they deserve special privileges because they were involuntarily drafted into this dangerous job... WAIT. Maybe they need these special privileges because the job only recently became dangerous, they had no way of knowing that there was a hazard when they signed up... oh wait.

I am not happy that the police are treading an adversarial path towards the everyday citizen. It seems that the solution is really to teach them who is boss. I can't think of a polite way to do that; or any way that doesn't end with (at least) a concrete lunch.

Robb Allen says:

on 7/1/2011 9:31:27 AM

Look, I absolutely do NOT want to come across as "we need to shoot cops" because that's not my intention. Down that road leads to a LOT of bodies.

The problem though is this - What other avenue is being afforded to the citizenry? If we could honestly believe that these 20 cops are going to spend time in jail, stripped of any benefits from being a police officer, then I'd say the best option is to allow the courts to work.

But this isn't the case. Jose Guerna's murderers are still walking the streets. They're STILL trying to push that nothing wrong was done and that his murder was by the books. Not even an admission that they could have handled it better. Now they're planting weak evidence (there's a stolen gun that wasn't there the day of the shooting!).

How am I, Joe Citizen, supposed to act now? I can't rest assured that the system I fought to protect as a Marine will protect me when it goes south.

Rock. Hard place.

Davidwhitewolf says:

on 7/1/2011 12:35:41 PM

@Borepatch, the only impact on the city of Dayton will be a slightly higher cost each year for their insurance premium after their insurance pays whatever settlement amount is reached. If the officers are found to have been acting without the cover of qualified immunity, the city will likely "offer" to pay any damages assessed to the individual officers as well.

Sucks, don't it?

Antagon says:

on 7/1/2011 2:12:03 PM

The only good cop is the cop who will break the Blue Wall of Silence. Of course as soon as he does he faces retaliation from all the other bad cops. And soon he's not a cop anymore.

The Blue Wall of Silence is bitch law. It's how bad cops make "good" cops their bitches.

dustydog says:

on 7/1/2011 3:28:57 PM

"Joel: My theory(but only a theory at this point) is that the "bad apples" congregate at the departmental level. That is, any department that tolerates one bad apple will eventually be filled with them, because good cops won't tolerate bad cops, and if they can't get rid of the bad cops (for whatever reason) the good ones will leave. At the same time, once the bad cops get any kind of power in the department, they will try to get rid of the good ones because they don't want the interference."

I don't know about the police, but this is exactly what is wrong at federal agencies.

FatWhiteMan says:

on 7/1/2011 5:16:37 PM

Dayton had to lower their entrance test standards scores from a "D" to an "F" because they were not getting enough recruits.

Who would have thought that F students would wail on retards. No one saw that coming.

Zendo Deb says:

on 7/1/2011 11:57:35 PM

"I still believe the majority of cops are good people, but the good ones can’t just sit back and continue to let this happen."

The problem is, if you define "good cop" as someone who will stop his fellow officers from going overboard, the only good cops can found in the Internal Affairs Divisions. They will not rat on one another.

When that (ex) Tampa officer dumped a guy out of a wheelchair - because he would follow her order to stand up - other officers on the tape were laughing.

It was - not that long ago - impossible to get a cop to show up at a gay-bashing, and if a cop did show up he was likely to arrest the guy bleeding, or join the bashers.

You are a straight, white male. So you have the best chance of having a good interaction with cops. The rest... not so much.

While there are good cops out there, I no longer believe they are the majority. And the longer they "keep their mouths shut" about the abuse, the less-likely they are to care about the "little people."

Tam says:

on 7/2/2011 9:47:44 AM

Joel got it right in one.

Tam says:

on 7/2/2011 9:48:40 AM

Sorry, I meant Jake.

Robb Allen says:

on 7/2/2011 10:56:04 AM

Tam got it right in two!

Justthisguy says:

on 7/2/2011 11:14:30 PM

I follow the LiveJournal of an autistic gal who lives in that town. She's an engineering student at Wright State, and quite sharp and pleasant to correspond with.

Thing is, she might even be less ept socially than the kid in the instant case. She has admitted that too much interaction with the normals can cause her to lose her ability to interact with the normals in a non-strange way.

When I read about this, I immediately thought of her and loaded her site to see if she was OK.

This just chaps my BAPish Cracker ass. Auties/Aspies are famous for being driven quite literally hoppin' mad by injustice, but fortunately I just got back from divine services, had a few beers, and am in my 7th decade here, so I am mellow enough not to break fingers on the keyboard.

The forces of order ought to protect the weak, not prey on them.

Justthisguy says:

on 7/2/2011 11:30:36 PM

"keel-hauling offense." Tam, gotcher high-power snark windlass workin'? We need a ship with lotsa nice razor-sharp barnacles. USS Olympia, maybe?

Mad Rocket Scientist says:

on 7/3/2011 12:49:02 PM

My opinion, you want to see a reduction in bad behavior from police and prosecutors, require them to put some skin in the game. Make the beat cop responsible for the first 5 grand of any civil judgement he's part of, sargeants 10 grand, LTs 25K, Captains and Prosecutors 50K.

Get the Union to pay those fines, or half of any judgement, and I wonder if you'll see changes happening.

deadcenter says:

on 7/4/2011 12:25:44 AM

Get the Union to pay those fines, or half of any judgement, and I wonder if you'll see changes happening.

Won't work, the individual has to be made to be accountable in some way. If you make the union responsible, they will find a way to negotiate coverage into the next contract or require that some form of insurance be issued to cover their potential liability.

As the saying goes, if you want less of something, tax it; if you want more of something, subsidize it. In this case, we want to tax bad behavior and that burden has to be borne by the bad actor, not some surrogate (i.e. the taxpayer).

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