Sharp as a Marble - Let the Anti-Open Carry people rejoice

<< Not quite understanding the hate | Home | Kids >>

Open Carry

They finally have a good story to pin on everyone why OC is such a terrible idea.

Security guard today just tried to physically dis-arm me. Grabbed my right arm with his left hand and attempted to grab my pistol grip with his right. Elbow to the face and a back step rear kick/shin scrape to his right knee/shin...turned and hit him with a full body roundhouse punch. Knocked his a$$ out cold. Because the cops were called I can't give full details until everything is settled but it was at a big box store.

I knew he was there but he never said a word just walked right up and tried it.

The Rent-A-Cop got a broken nose, jaw, and injured leg for his stupidity. Said rent-a-cop had no clue if the guy he assaulted (and yes, that's what he did) was a cop, a detective, a thug, or a regular joe. He simply saw "Gun" and equated it to "Mass Shooting".

Like I said at Uncle's (where I got this story), the reason this happened is because not enough people openly carry firearms, not because open carry is a bad idea. We've allowed guns to slip out of the mainstream, and when the vast majority of people's exposure to firearms comes from Hollywood and the Media, it's no wonder these are the types of reactions you get from time to time (and make no mistake about it, this is purely anecdotal and not indicative of normal Open Carry outings).

Maybe certain other anti-open carry activists won't harp on this, but that'd have a snowflakes chance in hell of not happening.

Update – I would like to clarify that I do not consider Say Uncle as a anti-OC activist. Say Uncle, like other gunnies I respect like Tam, have valid reasons why they would not personally Open Carry, but do not make a point to try to get Open Carry frowned upon by our group. I can respect that and agree with many of their points.

posted @ 12/31/2009 11:50:24 AM

Incoming Links

Open Carry Debate Rises From the Grave « A Geek With Guns on 12/31/2009 3:22:55 PM

He Did the Right Thing | Snowflakes in Hell on 1/5/2010 5:14:21 PM

Time to accessorize? – 081 on 1/8/2010 9:05:25 AM

cya rfi | walls of the city on 2/13/2010 7:40:31 PM

Comments

pdb says:

on 12/31/2009 12:09:06 PM

Maybe certain other anti-open carry activists won't harp on this, but that'd have a snowflakes chance in hell of not happening.

I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE.

SayUncle says:

on 12/31/2009 12:17:47 PM

1) Who's rejoicing?

2) saying OC isn't for me doesn't mean i want it banned or that others shouldn't do it. It's just not my preference for a few reasons.

3) Finally a good story? No, there've been others. Like ColtCCO getting slammed into concrete. that nut carrying the AK pistol in a park in Nashville and others.

mike w. says:

on 12/31/2009 12:27:44 PM

Maybe certain other anti-open carry activists won't harp on this, but that'd have a snowflakes chance in hell of not happening.

You're not foolin' me Robb. I see what you did :)

BTW - I thought that if you OC'd criminals would just disarm you and use your gun against you........ oh wait.

Robb Allen says:

on 12/31/2009 12:28:09 PM

Uncle,

Certain members of our group are anti-open carry activists. You, Tam, and from what I can tell Joe Huffman are against OC, but at the "I don't care for it and don't plan to do it" level, not the "let's burn several pages of pixels to try to make people who OC pariahs".

I'm totally on board with the fact that OC is not the norm and causes problems. I'm not saying it doesn't. In my opinion, the way to prevent these things is to get it back into the mainstream, and we can't do that if 100% of our firearms are tucked beneath our shirts. Open Carry has tactical repercussions as well, and I can understand why people might not be willing to go through the hassle of clearing out bits of sidewalk in their gums.

But there are those who actively try to persuade the gun community to shun Open Carrying, and I believe that harms our goals more than it helps. Hence my derision that is not aimed at you.

The 'finally a good story' thing is hyperbole, with a side of condescension ;) Condescension means "to talk down to", by the way.

David, Chandler, AZ says:

on 12/31/2009 12:36:24 PM

Uncle, I think Robb was just being snarky there.

alan says:

on 12/31/2009 12:43:18 PM

Way to ride that drama llama! :-)

/me get the popcorn.

Caleb says:

on 12/31/2009 12:51:18 PM

See, I'm not the only one that likes to ride the dramallama.

In all seriousness though, aside from the fact that this story smells kind of fishy, it is an excellent teaching story on weapons retention and why it's beneficial to have some training in unarmed combat.

Skullz says:

on 12/31/2009 1:16:47 PM

In related news, there is this:

Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit...

http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m9d29-Alamogordo-police-pay-21000-to-settle-open-carry-lawsuit

It's also worth mentioning that there is a lot of case law stacking up in favor of gun owners. Those who CC and those who OC. It's turning out to be quite costly to those public organizations who violate the rights of the citizens they are supposed to be protecting and serving.

I think the potential for big box store's deeper pockets might entice them to properly train their employees to avoid assaulting customers.

Sebastian says:

on 12/31/2009 1:41:56 PM

No drama Llama. Robb did not accurately predict what my reaction would be. I don't think the possibility of being disarmed is one of the reasons not to open carry. There are plenty of ways to deal with that possibility, and this is an example of that.

ExurbanKevin says:

on 12/31/2009 1:46:16 PM

I'm not sure this is a case of anti or pro- open carry so much as a security guard that doesn't have the remotest hint of an inkling of a clue.

I get the feeling this mall-cop-in-training would have tried the same thing on someone who was carrying concealed but inadvertently flashed his sidearm. As you said, he simply saw "Gun" and equated it to "Mass Shooting".

It wasn't the method of carry that caused this situation, it was the presumption that firearm = crazed killer. That security guard should be thankful he was able to wake up after this altercation.

And after reading this, CQB/weapons retention training is now #1 on my list for next year. :)

Ben says:

on 12/31/2009 1:56:41 PM

It's also worth mentioning that there is a lot of case law stacking up in favor of gun owners. Those who CC and those who OC. It's turning out to be quite costly to those public organizations who violate the rights of the citizens they are supposed to be protecting and serving.

But you also have cases like this and I wonder if this had anything to do with the guards decision.

A federal district judge in Atlanta has ruled that MARTA had probable cause to stop GCO member Christopher Raissi when Raissi was seen carrying a firearm at a MARTA train station. The court ruled that Raissi presented all the elements of both carrying a concealed weapon and boarding a train with a firearm.

straightarrow says:

on 12/31/2009 4:38:10 PM

If everyone hides the exercise of their rights, how do we normalize that exercise? Hidden principle is easy to deny and even easier to ban.

Wolfwood says:

on 12/31/2009 8:56:34 PM

Unless I'm mistaken, the debate isn't "always OC" vs. "never OC," but rather a question of leaning. People like me think it's better to discourage it in general so not just every schmuck goes and does it. If someone can do it responsibly, great. But just as I wouldn't tell someone to carry in Condition One unless they've taken time to learn what risks this entails and how to avoid them, OC is something that calls for a level of discernment not always shown by all gun owners all the time.

A Horse Thief says:

on 12/31/2009 9:29:39 PM

I have to agree with Caleb here. This story is really a good example of exactly what is required if you plan on OC.

He had a retention holster, had training on defeating disarm attempts, and had practiced enough that the response was automatic.

Most importantly, he knew a good lawyer, had his number handy, and followed his lawyer's advice.

straightarrow says:

on 1/1/2010 3:33:05 AM

I have no heartburn with Uncle's or Wolfwood's stance, just so long as they continue to realize that their personal choice is not incumbent on everyone and shouldn't be.

As others have stated it isn't and either/or nor is it an open carry vs. concealed carry ONLY proposition.

I see no reason to believe, though, that we can ever return to the normality of Americans not being fearful of armed peaceable men if we continue to hide the reality from them. Only open carry can normalize the false impressions now abundant in society. That doesn't mean no one should conceal carry, but it should mean that conceal carriers do not vilify their more open brethren.

Robert says:

on 1/1/2010 3:45:38 PM

I have no heartburn with Uncle's or Wolfwood's stance, just so long as they continue to realize that their personal choice is not incumbent on everyone and shouldn't be.

As others have stated it isn't and either/or nor is it an open carry vs. concealed carry ONLY proposition.

I see no reason to believe, though, that we can ever return to the normality of Americans not being fearful of armed peaceable men if we continue to hide the reality from them. Only open carry can normalize the false impressions now abundant in society. That doesn't mean no one should conceal carry, but it should mean that conceal carriers do not vilify their more open brethren.

You said it better than I ever could.

Fred says:

on 1/3/2010 3:45:18 AM

I wish people would get away from the whole "do OC/don't OC" thing. Some of us (Wisconsin native here) don't have the choice. I can either OC or not carry at all.
I'd much rather see some good discussion on how to prevent this sort of thing and how to handle yourself if it does happen to you. (And I sure as hell think one of the ways to prevent is to do it more and educate the masses.)

john b says:

on 1/3/2010 9:57:23 AM

Any mall ninja that foolish would be made to sit and pass a 500 question basic intelligence test, in order to be allowed to draw their next breath, never mind being allowed to retain their mini-wage faux cop uniform. You do understand that if a mall ninja assaults me, he better have a damn good reason, my response is preset, automatic, and invariably results in his being humiliated twice. Once by my almost effortlessly breaking his arm. Once again when my pet lawyer gets him into court.

Brad K. says:

on 1/3/2010 10:17:14 AM

I recall standing in line at an outlet bank inside Fry's Grocery in Goodyear Arizona about 15 years ago, just west of Phoenix, AZ.

The guy in front of me had a handgun on a waistband holster.

I took another look at the guy - jeans and shirt, hat that pretty much fit in the locale. Appearance maybe a bit more "rustic" than us office types from down the street. He demeanor and attitude said, "waiting in line."

No big deal. But it did make me wonder if that gun, in a "bank", might be the start of a real problem.

His open carry, though, brought me just that bit closer to accepting open carry in my community. Like I said. No big deal.

Today? I am relieved that store and that bank hadn't been declared "disarmed victim" zones.

Old NFO says:

on 1/3/2010 4:25:43 PM

My choice is to always CC if that is possible; however, if it's not I will OC depending on the situation. And yes, training in retention and control of ANY weapon is a good idea!

Cargosquid says:

on 1/4/2010 12:36:05 PM

That security guard's life was just saved. If he had attempted something that stupid on a real criminal, he would be dead. If you are security, and are willing to confront armed people without a)backup b)weapons c)knowledge of local law, you had better be Rambo....

Comments have been closed on this topic.