Sharp as a Marble - Don't blink

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Don't blink

Competitive shooting , Self Defense

Say Uncle emailed a link to this video showing a rather interesting course of fire at a shooting match

Interestingly enough, someone had pointed this out on IRC this morning. I believe the concept is to illustrate how fast an attacker can cover 21 feet.

Caleb mentioned in the email chain

That is really fast, wow. I'd hate to have a COF where you had to hit that from the leather.

Which made me think. Consider that if you are out and about, carrying your gun concealed, could you even get it out from concealment and get a shot on target? For those of you who carry your weapons in Condition Three, would you even have time to cock your weapon?

Something us gunnies talk of all the time is that your gun is not a talisman. It won't ward off threats just as it won't use mind control rays to make you go on killing sprees. In order to make the firearm effective, you must not only train with it on a regular basis, you need to make sure you have the correct mindset as to when and how to deploy it.

I don't have statistics, but I'd wager that most of the instances where a gun is called into play happen pretty damned fast. If you want to attack someone, the element of surprise gives you a tremendous advantage. And you can't really stop a sucker punch. The best you can do is keep your wits about you and roll with the punches. This is why Condition White is a terrible way to walk through life.

Somehow, though, I doubt I'm going to see this at my IPSC match on Sunday.

UPDATE – From Joe Huffman in the same email thread

The urge to “get off the line of attack” is very strong even just watching the video.

Another point to remember when doing these courses. The cardboard target isn't really armed with a knife. A real assailant can change direction. And if you stand there like a shmuck, you're getting a face full of ouch. A 45° retreat backwards gives you more time and forces your attacker to take a much longer route to get to you. If you can, of course.

posted @ 8/31/2009 12:18:34 PM

Incoming Links

The View From North Central Idaho - Get off the line of attack! on 8/31/2009 1:28:14 PM

SayUncle » Tueller Drill on 9/1/2009 9:25:37 AM

Backing up? Go forward (sorta)! « Stuff From Hsoi on 9/2/2009 9:59:18 AM

Self-Defense and Awareness at A Dixie Carpetbagger on 9/3/2009 5:19:12 PM

Comments

SayUncle says:

on 8/31/2009 12:52:45 PM

Yeah, I would be backing up quickly while drawing.

ExurbanKevin says:

on 8/31/2009 1:02:51 PM

2 things:

Even sitting down in my office, that video gets the heart pumping. That 1.8 seconds goes by FAST.

I wonder how that target can be safely combined with stage instructions so that shooters are encouraged to move out of the shooting box and/or retreat to cover while engaging the target. Obviously, you don't want a shooter running over an RO as they back up, but at the same time IDPA encourages practical solutions to possible real-life defensive pistol situations, and backing up is definitely the way to go here.

Robb Allen says:

on 8/31/2009 1:06:29 PM

Another thing to think of, hearkening back to my brief stint playing hockey, is that if I'm not going to be able to draw or move out of the way, to lower my body and move forward. Hard.

Low man wins.

Not every situation can be solved with a gun.

Crucis says:

on 8/31/2009 1:57:30 PM

At the IDPA Spring Nationals some years ago at Columbia, MO, there was a similar COF that included an approaching target with other static targets as well. That one didn't move as fast as this, but it did move along quickly. As I remember, there was a barricade behind the shooter that prevented backing away from the coming target. Perhaps the COF was designed that way with foresight.

DirtCrashr says:

on 8/31/2009 2:00:40 PM

Wow, Tuller Drill it is. I'm not an IDPA-guy or anything but I think I would cut left or right, running while looking for cover and drawing.
If that track had an s-curve in it and some no-shoots on either side it would be even harder/freakier.

Robb Allen says:

on 8/31/2009 2:03:15 PM

I would think that if you were really trying to get a feel for something like this, force on force with simunitions would work better.

DAve says:

on 8/31/2009 2:47:14 PM

All you need to know:
http://blogidaho.blogspot.com/2007/01/why-cops-shoot-guys-with-knives.html

Caleb says:

on 8/31/2009 4:36:57 PM

Actually, I kind of like Robb's idea about getting low and going for legs. Not that I'm particularly interested in fisticuffs, but if I can't run away like a little girl (my preferred option) then I'd probably be backing up and drawing as well.

Rick R. says:

on 8/31/2009 4:55:39 PM

No worries to friend Caleb.

The difficulty of making that shot "from teh leather" is why that Course of Fire was invented -- to show how dangerous a man with a knife is at 21 feet, and why we cannot wait for opponants with contact weapons to close to 10 feet before regarding them as an immediate lethal threat.

If you COULD hit that target with two wellplaced COM hits "from teh leather" -- you are in a small group of shooters.

aczarnowski says:

on 8/31/2009 5:03:05 PM

Meditations on Violence by Rory Miller was an eye opener. On one hand it makes clear how fubar the upright citizen can be in a confrontation. On the other, it firmly states the wicked problem still needs to be dealt with and it's up to you to end the fight with some direction for how to do that.

DirtCrashr says:

on 8/31/2009 6:30:10 PM

To be the MOST realistic though, this has to start out with the shooter's back to the cardboard, facing away.

Don Gwinn says:

on 9/1/2009 11:27:30 AM

Lawdog once told us about his favorite trick to pull on trainees: drill into their heads repeatedly that they must immediately move off the line of attack every single time, and observe which way they go (right or left.) Then wait until there's a solid tree or a wall on that side of them, charge them screaming bloody murder, and watch them bounce off the obstacle.
It's not nice, but it's funny . . . and then sobering . . . and eventually, funny all over again.

Don Gwinn says:

on 9/1/2009 11:30:57 AM

Oh, and to address your question about carry methods, I carry an unloaded pistol in a Maxpedition bag in accordance with current Illinois law. I'm more likely to get out of the way and hit my attacker with my man-purse than try to draw, load, charge and then start fighting back.

Caleb says:

on 9/1/2009 12:42:12 PM

Well, I'm doing the math on the draw/shot here: starting with the hand on the gun, 1.8 seconds equals a 1 second draw and 0.20 splits. Like I said at my blag, that's about in line with a B/Expert USPSA/IDPA shooter. My fastest ever draws in competition are around 0.9 seconds, and my average split time is around 0.2. The thing about the COF that would really mess with a shooter is the "startle" factor of that thing rushing towards you.

aczarnowski says:

on 9/1/2009 12:50:05 PM

No kidding Caleb. I twitched sideways just watching the video.

Knowing everything breaks, I wouldn't want to be directly in front of that mover. Who cares if it has a knife. That's a lot of energy coming at you.

Tam says:

on 9/1/2009 5:02:09 PM

I don't have statistics, but I'd wager that most of the instances where a gun is called into play happen pretty damned fast.

Your first indication that you're in a fight will probably be when you hit the ground.

As one cop who had successfully shot two bad guys from flat on his back put it: "I don't know why we even practice shooting standing up." A bit of an exaggeration, but something to think about when deciding how to tote your heater and other gear...

Comments have been closed on this topic.