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Secret lists cannot stop firearm purchases

Anti-Rights Idiocy , PSH

People on Terrorism Watch List Allowed to Buy Guns, Explosives

By Spencer S. Hsu
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, June 22, 2009; 3:45 PM

People named on the government's terrorist watch list have successfully purchased firearms hundreds of times since 2004 , government investigators reported yesterday. In one case, a known or suspected terrorist was able to buy more than 50 pounds of explosives, the Government Accountability Office reported.

The commenters are already in high dudgeon. They of the perpetual kneeling position cannot understand why others simply do not bow to their governmental lords like they do and give up everything in the name of abject terror. It's a list of names, not verifiable, not arguable, not in any way, shape, or form compiled with anything resembling due process, and damn it why do those crazy people insist on not using such a impeccable source of data to squash rights???

Tell the same group that terrorists captured on a battlefield won't be read their Miranda rights and watch their little froth flecked faces turn beet red. Wear a raincoat, though. Oh, it's Bush's fault too, in case you wonder if a ~~progressive~~ regressive could make an argument without bringing up the ultimate boogey man. The NRA gets plenty of mentions as well.

Sorry, you have a list that has barred service members and congressmen from boarding their planes that has millions of names on it and no way to do anything if yours happens to be one and you wonder why we're not so thrilled with the idea. Funny how regressives are all about due process and rights so long as it's for the right people. The Klan is just as progressive, they just hate a different subset of the populace.

posted @ 6/22/2009 4:44:04 PM

Comments

ExurbanKevin says:

on 6/22/2009 5:50:31 PM

What I can't figure out is they cry "Oh noes, the government watch list is suppressing our civil rights!" out of one side of their mouth and "Oh noes, the list isn't strong enough, people on it are buying guns!" out of the other side.

It's almost as if they view the Bill of Rights as a buffet to pick and choose from.

Linoge says:

on 6/22/2009 7:17:23 PM

Good grief... the same folks who were decrying the Patriot Act for how it could be misused, abused, targetted against American citizens, and generally exploited to increase government powers are now having the unmitigated gall to proclaim one of the products of that Act to be the Word Of God From On High, and more than sufficient to abridge individuals' natural and Constitutionally-protected rights without the benefit of a fair trial?

The only thing more frightening than the stupidity of those people is the fact that people like them are now in power...

DirtCrashr says:

on 6/22/2009 7:38:03 PM

A list...not verifiable, not arguable, not in any way, shape, or form compiled with anything resembling due process,
Sounds like what we're about to get BOHICA in the next Census.

Cemetery's Gun Blob says:

on 6/22/2009 10:04:35 PM

ExurbanKevin:

I was thinking the same thing....when word got out about the lack of due process, and guilty of suspicion, at first, everybody was screaming bloody murder....not it's like, it's ok, cause gun owners will end up on that list.....and we can't have them around.

Spook45 says:

on 6/23/2009 9:13:00 AM

this is just Hitlers(oops) I mean Obama's way of going after your guns. Hitler first nationalized the banking system(check) then he took oover the auto industry(check) seems he did something w/health care(working on that ) He made an all out power grab within his administraion(goes w/out saying) and then he registered all of the guns. After that he used his registration lists to confisacte all of the guns(from the people he didnt like. Then, shortly after taking all of the guns, he proceeded to ELIMINATE all of those who disagreed w/him(Oh and all of the Jews,blacks homos, or anny other group other than his choosing)The time is now to choose a side, what will you choose?

emdfl says:

on 6/23/2009 6:48:05 PM

The one buying more than 50 pounds of explosives was probably Joe(Huffman), he.

UBU52 says:

on 6/24/2009 4:30:33 AM

The Patriot Act and the Terrorist Watch List are two different things, aren't they? The Patriot Act is a huge bill that encompasses a whole lot of things including items in our Bill of Rights. The Terrorist Watch List is just a list of names.

The two things you are comparing are not equal.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that the average reader here is someone under 40 years old and I think quite a few are people in their 20s. Am I right?

To those of you in your 20s, have you ever heard of Timothy McVeigh? How much do you know about him? Did you know he had a NY CCW when he was arrested?

Robb Allen says:

on 6/24/2009 7:57:48 AM

You're right about the Patriot Act being different. You can get a copy of the Patriot Act. A lawyer can represent you in court and cite passages.

The 'watch list' has no such protections. As awful as the PA is, it's not a hidden, shadowy document.

Here's the deal. I'm creating a Suspected Child Molester list. You're on it. I have no proof (it's not required), I just suspect you based on your name. Because of this, you are not allowed to enter any place that has children present. You can't see my list and you can't do anything about your name being on there. It might not be you, it could be another UBU52, but that's just too bad.

As for McVeigh, good luck pinning an individual's action on everyone else that has something in common with him. You know, he had a dick too? And was wearing shoes. And got a hair cut at some point. So, is every guy wearing shoes with neatly trimmed hair a potential terrorist? Or are you simply grasping at straws trying to make some sort of tenuous connection between CCW holders and a real terrorist?

Again, you're under the pressure to show me where I state that having a CCW makes you a saint. Every group has outliers and they do not define the group as a whole.

UBU52 says:

on 6/25/2009 6:07:11 AM

I guess you don't see the humor in some of your posters' Timothy McVeigh impersonations, like that of Spook above. :)

Timothy McVeigh was a registered Republican and a member of the NRA. He eventually became a Libertarian. He did have a CCW from New York. And he thought the government was going to take away his guns.

So many similarities to things I see posted on blogs these days... It would be really funny if it wasn't kind of scary at the same time.

You think the anti-Obama stuff is a kick because you live in a redneck area that supports that kind of thing. I think it's nutty and out of touch because I live in area more consumed by the Iran elections. No one here cares about guns.

Robb Allen says:

on 6/25/2009 8:12:52 AM

UBU, Jeffery Dahmer was a registered Democrat and a Union Member. Most pedophiles are Democrats.

You're a child molester then, right?

No? Then stuff your comparisons to ONE SINGLE INSTANCE = EVERY LAST ASSOCIATED PERSON up where the sun don't shine (you'll have to remove your head first).

The government is trying to take away my guns, UBU. You're one of the people who scream for it to happen. No, they're not going to walk into my house and physically remove them, but they keep having people like you come up with illogical "restrictions" that do nothing to make people safer that slowly and incrementally make it impossible to own a firearm without breaking the law.

You think the anti-Obama stuff is a kick because you live in a redneck area that supports that kind of thing.

And now you have stepped over the bounds of civil discussion on this blog and no longer warrant civil treatment in return.

You don't know jack-fuck about me so shut your trap. You toss around the term redneck like a KKK member uses 'nigger'. You are a bigot, plain and simple. You apparently have no clue what life is like outside your city and assume that anyone who doesn't like your Socialist, Dumbo Eared, Teleprompter in Chief must be some sort of inbred ~~nigger~~... I mean redneck.

You're the one out of touch because you can't think outside your city limits. You stereotype every time you talk about ~~niggers and their big lips~~ gun owners and their desire to be terrorists. You can't fathom how someone could hold a differing opinion than you and resort to name calling. I expected better from you, but that's what I get for being open minded towards closed minded bigots.

Consumed with the Iran elections, are you? How progressive. Do you sit there in your safe chair and care really hard? Does your deep concern cause you ache? What have you actually DONE besides discuss it?

In my circles, we've been talking about it. We've noticed how a small force of government armed with firearms can slaughter a numerically superior yet unarmed populace. Your kind seems to prefer this situation since you fight so hard to keep guns out of our hands.

You are still welcome to comment here, but I have no compunction of remaining civil with anyone who continues to equate my gun ownership with terrorism or uses bigotry to further their arguments.

Robb Allen says:

on 6/25/2009 8:24:47 AM

Oh, and Spook speaks for himself, not for me. I disagree with the Hitler comparison (Hitler had a backbone), but agree with the fact that Obama is performing a massive power grab.

Oh, and the secret list that you can't verify is a nifty way of silencing political opponents.

Caleb says:

on 6/25/2009 8:56:16 AM

"McVeigh had a CCW from New York".

I find this incredibly hard to belive, knowing New York's laws as I do. Unless you've got a cite for this, I'm going to assume you're just making shit up.

Reputo says:

on 6/25/2009 11:03:40 AM

"McVeigh had a CCW from New York"
OK, this is plausible. After leaving the army he lived in New York (not NYC) for a while and when he was arrested he declared that he had a firearm (a NY CCW was not valid for carry in OK at the time). Despite the horror stories, getting a CCW in the state of NY is not that difficult (only the City has onerous restrictions).
So at the time he got the CCW in NY, what had he done that would disqualify him? Nothing.
We don't live in a world of "Minority Report". People should not be punished for crimes they may commit in the future (otherwise we will all be locked up).
What is most telling about Timothy McVeigh and having a CCW is that he didn't use a firearm to commit murder. In spite of the sick and twisted logic in his mind, where blowing up a federal building and killing 160+ adults and children gets back at the government for their botched raid at Ruby Ridge, the gun didn't make him go crazy and he didn't pull it on the officer who pulled him over (even though the officer had no idea who he was pulling over at the time, just some guy with a missing license plate).

Laughingdog says:

on 6/25/2009 12:36:07 PM

"You think the anti-Obama stuff is a kick because you live in a redneck area that supports that kind of thing."

Wow. Not just bigoted, but blatantly idiotic and uniformed as well. Robb mentions where he lives a lot in his posts. I've been there a lot in the past(ex-wife's family moved there), and there was an extreme shortage of anything resembling "rednecks" there.
If Robb at least lived somewhere like Alabama, UBU52 would at least just be pathetically clinging to a stereotype. But he doesn't even have that ridiculously weak leg to stand on.

Laughingdog says:

on 6/25/2009 12:36:50 PM

Interesting. The "Preview" showed monstrous breaks between the paragraphs there. The post....not so much.

thirdpower says:

on 6/25/2009 1:24:41 PM

McVeigh was also a fan of Star Trek: TNG. Since Trekkers are a bastion of anti-American activity, all their parents basements must be searched for subversive materials like photoshopped pictures of Deanna Troi naked.

Eseell says:

on 6/25/2009 3:57:01 PM

You can have my photoshopped pictures of Marina Sirtis when you pry them from my cold, degaussed hard drive.

Joe Huffman says:

on 6/26/2009 12:25:47 PM

The Unabomber had a copy of Al Gore's book Earth in the Balance and is idealogical close to Gore.

The Beltway Snipers were homosexual, black, and Muslim.

None of the above makes Al Gore guilty the Unabomber's crimes or should gays, blacks, and Muslims be tarred with the murders of the Beltway Snipers.

The CCW status of McVeigh does not reflect on the virtues of other CCW holders.

UBU52, no one you know cares about guns or the 2nd Amendment? I'm not surprised. Reverend Richard Butler and his followers didn't much care for the 13th Amendment and equal rights either.

UBU52 says:

on 6/27/2009 5:18:20 AM

Robb Allen,

You lost control so I WIN!!!!! Ha hahahahahaha!! I got your goat so you lose!

Yeah, you could have just avoided my post -- but you chose to take it up and that is where you lost!

What a buffoon! Pro-gunnie versus anti: -1

Even stupid rednecks don't fall for this sort of baiting.

UBU52 says:

on 6/27/2009 5:26:37 AM

Joe Huffman,

On other threads, others have already identified you as the possible buyer of 50 pounds of explosives...?

So sorry, but you talk to air when you talk to me. I don't communicate with potential terrorists.

I thought this blog catered to normal anti-gun guys but now I realize that you are probably all extremists so I'll post elsewhere.

(I probably should have realized that everyone here was whacked when Robb posted the equivalent of "When guns are outlawed, I'll become an outlaw." Timothy McVeigh said the same thing!)

Robb Allen says:

on 6/27/2009 7:42:19 AM

UBU,

You are a bigot. You just don't realize it.

Sad.

Joe Huffman says:

on 6/27/2009 2:40:19 PM

UBU52, I saw that thread too. It was someone making a joke.

I have never bought any explosives. I have an ATF type 20 license (license to manufacture high explosives) and always make my own. I, with the help of my daughter and friends, make about 2000 pounds per year. 50 pounds is something we would use for a little weekend fun. Which reminds me... Kim and I should go celebrate the Heller decision again since yesterday was the one-year anniversary.

"Potential terrorist"? Only in the sense that all men are "potential rapists" and all women are "potential prostitutes". Potentialities are not actualities.

Maybe you are unaware of it but in this country criminal law is supposed to be based the actions of people. It is not supposed to be based on what someone imagines is happening inside the head of another. Presumption of innocence and all that...

Besides gun owners being potential terrorists do you also consider consider black people potential drug dealers and criminals? And in your world view do Jews control all the banks and are conspiring to rule the world? Or are they just vermin that spread disease and need to be exterminated?

Linoge says:

on 6/28/2009 5:45:45 PM

God... we could be so lucky if this hoplophobic bigot moved on to greener (for him) pastures...

Joe Huffman says:

on 6/29/2009 3:27:01 AM

I don't know... I kind of like having a toy to play with...

Comments have been closed on this topic.