Sharp as a Marble - Reloading issues

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Reloading issues

Reloading

Caleb talks about a Kaboom in an XD due to a squib, something I've experienced before myself, and it reminded me to carp about my reloading issue I've experienced over the weekend.

Trying to reload some .45ACP so I can get my ass back to an IDPA shoot, I've run into something that is just pissing me the hell off – I can't get a consistent Overall Length (OAL) to save my life.

I've tightened down the seating die and it's not moving. I'll set up a dummy round and get it to 1.210". I'll pull the round, seat it again, and get the same. I start running live rounds, and the OAL is all over the place. We're talking some rounds at 1.4" and some at 1.13". For the life of me I can't comprehend how this is happening. I don't see the frame flexing this much, but until I can sort this out, I can't reload the .45 because that much variance could have me featured on Caleb's front page for the same basic reason as the XD.

Is this a slipping issue? Are the lead bullets sliding into the case past the point where the seating die pushes them? Am I belling the case too much? I gotta get a hold of this soon or else my butt will be sitting by yet another month for IDPA.

Anyone got any tips?

posted @ 3/16/2009 10:32:28 AM

Comments

OrangeNeckInNY says:

on 3/16/2009 12:00:25 PM

The bullet's not seating in the case opening with enough tightness, so when you fire that first round, the recoil is pushing the case backwards while the bullet is trying to remain in its current position in space. Measure the inside of the magazine and tell me the distance front to back where the cartridge sits. I'm guessing it's 1.4"

DirtCrashr says:

on 3/16/2009 12:25:02 PM

Talk to Kirk, he's an IDPA reloader-racegun-Kimber shooter...

Laughingdog says:

on 3/16/2009 12:29:42 PM

This has nothing to do with forces caused when shooting the rounds. He's having issues when making the rounds on his reloading press.

I haven't done anything with lead bullets yet, so I don't know if that's your issue, or if has something to do with the setup of your press.

I used to have a similar issue (though not nearly as extreme) when loading rounds of 9mm with charges near the maximum listed in my Speer Reloading Manual. My dies were set to a little above the minimum required OAL. This was fine for starting charges. But it turned out that it's impossible to get the cartridge that short when using Unique or Blue Dot powder in a 9mm case. The seating die would press down, and then the powder would lift the bullet back up. So none of my cartridges were at the length I expected.

However, I can't see how that could happen with .45ACP, since even maximum loads aren't anywhere near enough powder to keep the bullet from reaching the correct depth. My first suggestion would be to cut down the amount of bell, since I had an issue when first loading .38/.357 where the bullet would drop down way too far when I tried to seat it. Another thing would be to try another bullet (preferably plated or jacketed) to see if it's just an issue of the lead bullet being sized a smidge too small or just being lubed enough to slide down a little far.

Robb Allen says:

on 3/16/2009 12:33:28 PM

Another thing would be to try another bullet (preferably plated or jacketed) to see if it's just an issue of the lead bullet being sized a smidge too small or just being lubed enough to slide down a little far.

I fear that, but I have a hard time understanding that. I just bought 1000 bullets from Mastercast, but they're the same bullets I got from them the last time and those worked fine.

I think I'm going to tone down on the bell a bit. Maybe it's causing too loose of a fit. Right now, that's just a guess.

OrangeNeckInNY says:

on 3/16/2009 12:54:45 PM

Maybe it's the air pressure inside the case when you press the bullet in. That pressure inside the case might be just enough to slowly push the bullet back up, which would bring me back to what I originally said about the the bullet not seating tightly enough inside the case.

Or perhaps, when you started loading the bullets, barometric pressure was high, but when barometric pressure dropped the air pressure inside the case is enough to push the bullet out.

Whatever my rantings may be, the case tightness around the bullet may be insufficient and you may have to neck down the case a little bit for a snugger fit.

NMM1AFan says:

on 3/16/2009 1:11:16 PM

Do you taper crimp the reloads at all?

Also, did you check the case lengths of the empty brass?

Just $.02.

Regards,

Dock says:

on 3/16/2009 2:00:03 PM

If you're "superbelling" the case mouth, I'd say don't do that. I bell my .45 so that I can just get the bullet started, and have had no problems at all with OAL.

Also I use TiteGroup which, being a sneeze of powder, doesn't have any contact with the projectile when loading.

Robb Allen says:

on 3/16/2009 2:05:13 PM

I use TiteGroup as well.

guy says:

on 3/16/2009 4:24:12 PM

Load some rounds with no powder or primer and try to shove the bullets into the case with your thumb.

The case alone should have enough tension to withstand quite a bit of pressure - as in shove as hard as your thumb will take and it won't budge.

I had a problem with bullet setback on some 380 I was loading and it turned out to be a lot of bad brass. The bullets were so loose I could move them around with only light finger pressure. I switched from the Remington I had gotten on sale to the Starline I usually use and my problems went away.

guy says:

on 3/16/2009 4:31:07 PM

Oh, and what reloading gear do you use?

If you run the Lee factory crimp die, it can cause problems with neck tension. The die resizes the round which is nice because you know the round will chamber. But it can also swage the bullet smaller while the brass springs back the bullet doesn't. I've never run into that problem but some bullets - I think it was the gold dots - actually have a driving band inside them that the sizing will mash and cause all manner of hell.

guy says:

on 3/16/2009 4:47:57 PM

Oh, one more thing to check.

I only use Lee dies, so I don't know if this applies to your setup. The Lee bullet seater floats in the die and auto centers on the tip of the bullet. If the seater hangs up in the die the bullet tip won't center and could be seated to different depths.

Also, the seater has a curved face that the bullet should glide over and center itself. If there is gunk on the curved face of the seater the bullet could hang up and get seated to differing depths as well.

Just a thought.

Crucis says:

on 3/16/2009 5:39:31 PM

My next thought would be what type of press do you have? I used a Lee Progressive for years. The documentation warned that OAL would change if you loaded a single round at a time than when you loaded progressively with a rounds= on the in each stage of the press. Had something to do with pressure on the plate when the reloading lever was pulled.

Ninth Stage says:

on 3/16/2009 7:08:59 PM

I bet it's a build-up of excess bullet lube in the seater die.

Kirk says:

on 3/16/2009 8:59:28 PM

As much as I would like to help with the problem you are having with OAL inconsistency issues I just have never had that problem. I don't use cast lead, but I may take a look at it as the jacketed FPs that I like are a bit spendy at $136 per thousand.

As one of those blue press snobs (I started with a Lee) I took a look at my belling/powder fill die last night when I had the whole press apart for its 15 year periodical cleaning and lubing. My cases only get a slight belling at the very edge of the case. I could not push a bullet down past the belling with my fingers.

I have to throw my opinion in with Ninth Stage, disassemble you seating die and make sure it is not gunked up. My seating die is a 2 piece job that could be affected by gunk..

Weer'd Beard says:

on 3/17/2009 1:08:23 PM

+1 to Crucis

I use a Lee Pro 1000, and I had some odd OALs come out. Turned out my decapping die had backed down a little and was hanging up the press plate. So when I loaded one at a time the OAL was right where I wanted it, when I had a round being decapped/resized suddenly the OAL was long.

I bet my dies could also use a cleaning.

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